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	<title>Comments on: Child Training</title>
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	<description>Keeping the Radical Right at Bay</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff Eyges</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-35040</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Eyges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What sort of monster can we expect this child to turn into?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Precisely the sort of monsters who have been taking over the country these past 25 years.

Thank you, Ron Reagan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What sort of monster can we expect this child to turn into?</p></blockquote>
<p>Precisely the sort of monsters who have been taking over the country these past 25 years.</p>
<p>Thank you, Ron Reagan.</p>
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		<title>By: Another Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-34964</link>
		<dc:creator>Another Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=890#comment-34964</guid>
		<description>I am so glad that someone made the Monty Python connection that was so horribly needed in the above posts!

…One book…hmmm… So much depends on the context. For example: lost in the wilderness -&gt; Boy Scout Handbook (or something of that sort). Last hand full of humans on Earth: How Things Work. Literature? Poetry? A religious book? Only for toilet paper.

In the &quot;last people on earth&quot; situation, there&#039;s almost nothing you can do to keep subsequent generations from developing their own myths, legends and religions. Even if you give them a bible etched onto tungsten pages so that it can&#039;t be damaged or decomposed, they&#039;ll lose it, or forget how to read the damn thing. In this case, it would even lose its usefulness as toilet paper (ouch!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so glad that someone made the Monty Python connection that was so horribly needed in the above posts!</p>
<p>…One book…hmmm… So much depends on the context. For example: lost in the wilderness -&gt; Boy Scout Handbook (or something of that sort). Last hand full of humans on Earth: How Things Work. Literature? Poetry? A religious book? Only for toilet paper.</p>
<p>In the &#8220;last people on earth&#8221; situation, there&#8217;s almost nothing you can do to keep subsequent generations from developing their own myths, legends and religions. Even if you give them a bible etched onto tungsten pages so that it can&#8217;t be damaged or decomposed, they&#8217;ll lose it, or forget how to read the damn thing. In this case, it would even lose its usefulness as toilet paper (ouch!)</p>
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		<title>By: OtherRob</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-34961</link>
		<dc:creator>OtherRob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=890#comment-34961</guid>
		<description>Wow. I&#039;ve lived in the South most of my life and I&#039;ve never heard the &quot;black people can&#039;t float&quot; myth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I&#8217;ve lived in the South most of my life and I&#8217;ve never heard the &#8220;black people can&#8217;t float&#8221; myth.</p>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-34936</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 22:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=890#comment-34936</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s what I was thinking!

But no, seriously, you had not only white people calling up and swearing that the myth &quot;black people can&#039;t float&quot; is real, you had African Americans calling in too!  Granted, everybody claiming the myth was older, so hopefully the younger generation knows that melanin doesn&#039;t weigh that much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s what I was thinking!</p>
<p>But no, seriously, you had not only white people calling up and swearing that the myth &#8220;black people can&#8217;t float&#8221; is real, you had African Americans calling in too!  Granted, everybody claiming the myth was older, so hopefully the younger generation knows that melanin doesn&#8217;t weigh that much.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Britton</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-34926</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Britton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=890#comment-34926</guid>
		<description>Parrotlover:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I actually heard on a (liberal, no-less) radio talk show a long discussion about whether black people can — wait for it — float in water!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s crazy ignorant!  Everybody knows that the only thing floating in water proves is that you&#039;re a witch!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parrotlover:</p>
<blockquote><p>I actually heard on a (liberal, no-less) radio talk show a long discussion about whether black people can — wait for it — float in water!</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s crazy ignorant!  Everybody knows that the only thing floating in water proves is that you&#8217;re a witch!</p>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-34924</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=890#comment-34924</guid>
		<description>There is still a long list of pervasive stereotypes treated as fact by many otherwise perfectly rational humans with regard to African Americans.  

It was less than a year ago when I actually heard on a (liberal, no-less) radio talk show a long discussion about whether black people can — wait for it — float in water!  I&#039;m completely serious!  There were dozens of callers that you could tell honestly thought they were not racist by holding to that fiction -- and I&#039;m sure they otherwise thought black people could accomplish anything.  

It&#039;s just an example of how these thoughts, although much worse in the past, still exist today.

Brian - You are ahead of your time.  I know this because I know I am ahead of my time.  And if the young whipper-snappers think we&#039;re old fogies, it&#039;s because they don&#039;t know how hard we had to when we were their age!  And we liked it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is still a long list of pervasive stereotypes treated as fact by many otherwise perfectly rational humans with regard to African Americans.  </p>
<p>It was less than a year ago when I actually heard on a (liberal, no-less) radio talk show a long discussion about whether black people can — wait for it — float in water!  I&#8217;m completely serious!  There were dozens of callers that you could tell honestly thought they were not racist by holding to that fiction &#8212; and I&#8217;m sure they otherwise thought black people could accomplish anything.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s just an example of how these thoughts, although much worse in the past, still exist today.</p>
<p>Brian &#8211; You are ahead of your time.  I know this because I know I am ahead of my time.  And if the young whipper-snappers think we&#8217;re old fogies, it&#8217;s because they don&#8217;t know how hard we had to when we were their age!  And we liked it!</p>
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		<title>By: OtherRob</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-34907</link>
		<dc:creator>OtherRob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 06:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That’s easy: Harry Potter&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m currently reading &lt;em&gt;Chamber of Secrets&lt;/em&gt; to my 7-year-old son. He&#039;s always disappointed when it&#039;s time to stop and go to bed. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That’s easy: Harry Potter</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m currently reading <em>Chamber of Secrets</em> to my 7-year-old son. He&#8217;s always disappointed when it&#8217;s time to stop and go to bed. <img src='http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-34898</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 23:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=890#comment-34898</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always been fascinated by how morality is relative to the times in which one lives. To any rational person today, the crude depictions of black people are beyond the pale, but that&#039;s judging it by today&#039;s accepted standard. Back then, almost everyone, possibly including even a majority of African-Americans, would not have raised an objection to them. 

Today we commonly regard Lincoln as a great man and probably our greatest president, but what is often overlooked is his belief that blacks could never be equal to whites. Does that archaic view lessen the magnitude of what he accomplished, or do we simply attribute it to the times in which he lived and leave it at that? As I said, this is a fascinating question.

Here&#039;s another example I&#039;ve noticed for some time. Home improvement products are my profession. One particular galling packaging scheme I&#039;ve seen repeatedly involves the use of a young, attractive woman pictured on the label using the product with a big, happy smile. The subtext couldn&#039;t be more obvious: &quot;Look! Even a WOMAN can do this. A BLONDE woman!&quot; Most people don&#039;t even notice this, which reminds me of the illustrations above. 

I often wonder what changes will occur to society&#039;s norms that will leave me behind in my older years. Is there a position I stand firmly by today that seems correct now but will be shunned by the vast majority of a future generation? Will my grandchildren look at me as a grumpy, intolerant old man because of something that doesn&#039;t bother me now? Or am I ahead of my time, simply waiting for the rest of the world to catch up to me? I sincerely hope it is the latter that is true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always been fascinated by how morality is relative to the times in which one lives. To any rational person today, the crude depictions of black people are beyond the pale, but that&#8217;s judging it by today&#8217;s accepted standard. Back then, almost everyone, possibly including even a majority of African-Americans, would not have raised an objection to them. </p>
<p>Today we commonly regard Lincoln as a great man and probably our greatest president, but what is often overlooked is his belief that blacks could never be equal to whites. Does that archaic view lessen the magnitude of what he accomplished, or do we simply attribute it to the times in which he lived and leave it at that? As I said, this is a fascinating question.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s another example I&#8217;ve noticed for some time. Home improvement products are my profession. One particular galling packaging scheme I&#8217;ve seen repeatedly involves the use of a young, attractive woman pictured on the label using the product with a big, happy smile. The subtext couldn&#8217;t be more obvious: &#8220;Look! Even a WOMAN can do this. A BLONDE woman!&#8221; Most people don&#8217;t even notice this, which reminds me of the illustrations above. </p>
<p>I often wonder what changes will occur to society&#8217;s norms that will leave me behind in my older years. Is there a position I stand firmly by today that seems correct now but will be shunned by the vast majority of a future generation? Will my grandchildren look at me as a grumpy, intolerant old man because of something that doesn&#8217;t bother me now? Or am I ahead of my time, simply waiting for the rest of the world to catch up to me? I sincerely hope it is the latter that is true.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-34896</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=890#comment-34896</guid>
		<description>His commentary on the Bible is kind of true. When I was growing up in fundieland, most of the other kids didn&#039;t care why things were happening in the Bible stories. Who cares if God kills every living thing on the Earth? At least he didn&#039;t kill the magical Jew and his family!

Then, by the time you get old enough to question the deity&#039;s motivations, you&#039;ve already had the infallibility of the fairy tales ingrained into you, so you don&#039;t bother questioning your own religion, only other ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>His commentary on the Bible is kind of true. When I was growing up in fundieland, most of the other kids didn&#8217;t care why things were happening in the Bible stories. Who cares if God kills every living thing on the Earth? At least he didn&#8217;t kill the magical Jew and his family!</p>
<p>Then, by the time you get old enough to question the deity&#8217;s motivations, you&#8217;ve already had the infallibility of the fairy tales ingrained into you, so you don&#8217;t bother questioning your own religion, only other ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Modusoperandi</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-34889</link>
		<dc:creator>Modusoperandi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=890#comment-34889</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;He rushed home and told his wife Betsy about it. &quot;We&#039;ll win surely, Betsy, for it&#039;s George Friggin&#039; Washington!&quot; Then, after a long pause, Betsy replied &quot;You&#039;re not a very good Quaker, are you?&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

...
&lt;b&gt;4ndyman&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;&quot;Certainly the Bible isn’t the right way to go, but what book could you put in its place?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
Stranger in a Strange Land. It&#039;s got biblical parallels, but reflects how things actually work (I still remember crying when that beautiful Martian man died. &lt;i&gt;*sniff*&lt;/i&gt;). Lots of Heinlein&#039;s &quot;young adult&quot; novels would work, too (moral trials, but with a healthy sense of optimism and can-do attitude. Also, moxie).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>He rushed home and told his wife Betsy about it. &#8220;We&#8217;ll win surely, Betsy, for it&#8217;s George Friggin&#8217; Washington!&#8221; Then, after a long pause, Betsy replied &#8220;You&#8217;re not a very good Quaker, are you?&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230;<br />
<b>4ndyman</b> <i>&#8220;Certainly the Bible isn’t the right way to go, but what book could you put in its place?&#8221;</i><br />
Stranger in a Strange Land. It&#8217;s got biblical parallels, but reflects how things actually work (I still remember crying when that beautiful Martian man died. <i>*sniff*</i>). Lots of Heinlein&#8217;s &#8220;young adult&#8221; novels would work, too (moral trials, but with a healthy sense of optimism and can-do attitude. Also, moxie).</p>
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		<title>By: 4ndyman</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-34888</link>
		<dc:creator>4ndyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=890#comment-34888</guid>
		<description>Of course, you&#039;re right about the false dilemma. Choosing only one book is more intellectual calisthenics than practical exercise.

There are worse books than the Bible, though. The Book of Mormon, for example. I&#039;d give other examples, but I don&#039;t need an Ayatollah proclaiming a death fatwa on me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, you&#8217;re right about the false dilemma. Choosing only one book is more intellectual calisthenics than practical exercise.</p>
<p>There are worse books than the Bible, though. The Book of Mormon, for example. I&#8217;d give other examples, but I don&#8217;t need an Ayatollah proclaiming a death fatwa on me.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Britton</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/890/child-training/comment-page-1#comment-34879</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Britton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=890#comment-34879</guid>
		<description>4ndyman:

That&#039;s easy:  Harry Potter.  We want them to be satanists.

Actually, the single book idea is a false dilemma.  I don&#039;t think there is one book that single-handedly can carry that burden.  If forced to pick one, I&#039;d say any book except the Bible, for the simple reason that the Bible is the only book that our culture imbues with the superstition that it&#039;s true.  If you give them a Bible and tell them that everything in there is true, you&#039;ll end up with a severely damaged child.  Give them anything else, and as long as they understand it is fiction, they should be (at most) only slightly damaged.  More likely, though, they&#039;ll be a slightly better person, because they&#039;ve been exposed to other ideas.  Give them a lot of books, and they&#039;ll probably end up much better for the experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4ndyman:</p>
<p>That&#8217;s easy:  Harry Potter.  We want them to be satanists.</p>
<p>Actually, the single book idea is a false dilemma.  I don&#8217;t think there is one book that single-handedly can carry that burden.  If forced to pick one, I&#8217;d say any book except the Bible, for the simple reason that the Bible is the only book that our culture imbues with the superstition that it&#8217;s true.  If you give them a Bible and tell them that everything in there is true, you&#8217;ll end up with a severely damaged child.  Give them anything else, and as long as they understand it is fiction, they should be (at most) only slightly damaged.  More likely, though, they&#8217;ll be a slightly better person, because they&#8217;ve been exposed to other ideas.  Give them a lot of books, and they&#8217;ll probably end up much better for the experience.</p>
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