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	<title>Comments on: The Gay Agenda Enters the White House</title>
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	<description>Keeping the Radical Right at Bay</description>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-36693</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 23:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-36693</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;He fought to force two mentally retarded Florida women to give birth to children of rapists&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This just makes me sick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>He fought to force two mentally retarded Florida women to give birth to children of rapists</p></blockquote>
<p>This just makes me sick.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Eyges</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-35984</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Eyges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 02:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-35984</guid>
		<description>Iowa? Seriously? How in the world did they manage that one?

Right in the fundies&#039; front yard. Well, well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iowa? Seriously? How in the world did they manage that one?</p>
<p>Right in the fundies&#8217; front yard. Well, well&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-35982</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-35982</guid>
		<description>In what can only be a crippling kick to the collective nuts of fundies across America, Iowa has shown how civilized it is and will henceforth recognize same-sex marriages. What&#039;s really beautiful about this decision is that there seems to be no further legal recourse possible for the forces of evil, so until they can try for the inevitable constitutional amendment, they&#039;re going to have to live with it. 

I&#039;m not only happy for the gay and lesbian citizens of that enlightened state, but I&#039;m also laughing my ass off at the poor, &quot;oppressed&quot; Christians who will wring their hands and gnash their teeth over this for a long time to come. No doubt people like Tony Perkins, Donald Wildmon and our old friend James Dobson are firing up their computers at this moment to send out an &quot;alert&quot; to their sheep, while simultaneously using this emergency as a convenient excuse to beg for more money.

As we watch our society undergo a progressive change toward tolerance and acceptance of our gay brothers and sisters, the fundies sputter about in apoplectic fits of bigotry, showing the world how ignorant and hateful they are. I love it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In what can only be a crippling kick to the collective nuts of fundies across America, Iowa has shown how civilized it is and will henceforth recognize same-sex marriages. What&#8217;s really beautiful about this decision is that there seems to be no further legal recourse possible for the forces of evil, so until they can try for the inevitable constitutional amendment, they&#8217;re going to have to live with it. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not only happy for the gay and lesbian citizens of that enlightened state, but I&#8217;m also laughing my ass off at the poor, &#8220;oppressed&#8221; Christians who will wring their hands and gnash their teeth over this for a long time to come. No doubt people like Tony Perkins, Donald Wildmon and our old friend James Dobson are firing up their computers at this moment to send out an &#8220;alert&#8221; to their sheep, while simultaneously using this emergency as a convenient excuse to beg for more money.</p>
<p>As we watch our society undergo a progressive change toward tolerance and acceptance of our gay brothers and sisters, the fundies sputter about in apoplectic fits of bigotry, showing the world how ignorant and hateful they are. I love it.</p>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-33809</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-33809</guid>
		<description>I agree with the sentiment, but I&#039;m pretty tired of the &quot;war on...&quot; PR move.  Why does everything have to be a war?  So far, all the &quot;war on [not a country]&quot; have failed miserably, because it&#039;s presenting a war-like attitude on a concept that cannot ever be defeated.  For example, no matter how long the &quot;war on drugs&quot; goes, they will never win.  Even in a complete police state, people will find a way to get high.  It is absolutely unwinnable.

I would prefer that PR gimmic would go away.  We should certainly do things to help those addicted to drugs to get off drugs.  We should certainly do what we can to prevent another terrorist attack, including, possibly, waging war on regimes directly responsible for terrorism.  But declaring war on a concept will always fail.

But, yes, we should be promoting education around the world.  It would do much to stamp out extermism in its many forms.  Education and also, you know, like, shelter and food and stuff like that too.  Food, shelter, and education tend to sway minds better than bombs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the sentiment, but I&#8217;m pretty tired of the &#8220;war on&#8230;&#8221; PR move.  Why does everything have to be a war?  So far, all the &#8220;war on [not a country]&#8221; have failed miserably, because it&#8217;s presenting a war-like attitude on a concept that cannot ever be defeated.  For example, no matter how long the &#8220;war on drugs&#8221; goes, they will never win.  Even in a complete police state, people will find a way to get high.  It is absolutely unwinnable.</p>
<p>I would prefer that PR gimmic would go away.  We should certainly do things to help those addicted to drugs to get off drugs.  We should certainly do what we can to prevent another terrorist attack, including, possibly, waging war on regimes directly responsible for terrorism.  But declaring war on a concept will always fail.</p>
<p>But, yes, we should be promoting education around the world.  It would do much to stamp out extermism in its many forms.  Education and also, you know, like, shelter and food and stuff like that too.  Food, shelter, and education tend to sway minds better than bombs.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-33807</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-33807</guid>
		<description>PL,

That&#039;s exactly why we need to find a way to show these people that they can have a better life than they currently must endure. 

I believe that begins with education, especially for the women of the Islamic world. Naturally, female empowerment would eventually follow, leading to the demise, one would hope, of barbarities such as female circumcision, arranged marriage and permanent subservience. The powers-that-be (you know, men) won&#039;t allow this because they know that&#039;ll upset the whole apple cart and deny them their current positions of power, which is quite analogous to how our own fundies are determined to screw up education here because they are afraid of too many intelligent people poking holes in their collective fantasy. 

The &quot;War on Terror&quot; has always been an absurd idea, but then I really didn&#039;t expect anything better from the Bush Administration. A far more accurate approach would be to wage a &quot;War on Ignorance&quot; which is at the root of so many of the world&#039;s problems, especially terrorism and our old friend, religious extremism. I can only hope President Obama realizes this and can take steps in that direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PL,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s exactly why we need to find a way to show these people that they can have a better life than they currently must endure. </p>
<p>I believe that begins with education, especially for the women of the Islamic world. Naturally, female empowerment would eventually follow, leading to the demise, one would hope, of barbarities such as female circumcision, arranged marriage and permanent subservience. The powers-that-be (you know, men) won&#8217;t allow this because they know that&#8217;ll upset the whole apple cart and deny them their current positions of power, which is quite analogous to how our own fundies are determined to screw up education here because they are afraid of too many intelligent people poking holes in their collective fantasy. </p>
<p>The &#8220;War on Terror&#8221; has always been an absurd idea, but then I really didn&#8217;t expect anything better from the Bush Administration. A far more accurate approach would be to wage a &#8220;War on Ignorance&#8221; which is at the root of so many of the world&#8217;s problems, especially terrorism and our old friend, religious extremism. I can only hope President Obama realizes this and can take steps in that direction.</p>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-33772</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-33772</guid>
		<description>I agree with you Brian about the brilliance of the first post-president interview being on islamic teevee.  That was absolutely brilliant!  

I must stress though not to conflate islam with the islamic.  I know it&#039;s hard, but they are victims moreso than even our american fundies.  These kids grow up in oppressive regimes and don&#039;t realize that there are other possible religious options, let alone non-religious options.  In a way, it&#039;s a cycle of abuse.  

I&#039;m not condoning islamic extermism, but I am sympathizing with a people that doesn&#039;t realize that allah will not, in fact, come down and smite them should they disobey islamic law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you Brian about the brilliance of the first post-president interview being on islamic teevee.  That was absolutely brilliant!  </p>
<p>I must stress though not to conflate islam with the islamic.  I know it&#8217;s hard, but they are victims moreso than even our american fundies.  These kids grow up in oppressive regimes and don&#8217;t realize that there are other possible religious options, let alone non-religious options.  In a way, it&#8217;s a cycle of abuse.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not condoning islamic extermism, but I am sympathizing with a people that doesn&#8217;t realize that allah will not, in fact, come down and smite them should they disobey islamic law.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-33726</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-33726</guid>
		<description>As far as Republicans are concerned, I think they&#039;re walking into a trap. For two elections now they&#039;ve shown a complete lack of awareness of the country&#039;s mood. If they think opposing a popular new president on a bill intended to jump-start the economy so as to please their precious base is wise, they&#039;re going to learn a hard lesson. Obama&#039;s trip to Capitol Hill was brilliant because, by reaching out to them, Republicans will be the bad guys if this thing doesn&#039;t pass. 

I also agree with Ron that the Democrats (Obama and a few others notwithstanding) have forgotten how to stand up for what is right. With their numerical advantages in both houses, they ought to be able to pass whatever they want. But I sense they&#039;re already becoming drunk with power by playing by the same rules the Republicans used for years. I actually think Obama will have more problems, going forward, with his own party than with Republicans. 

Getting back to the original point of this article, I wish Obama were more enlightened on matters of gay equality, but he&#039;s already light-years beyond his predecessor, so in all, that&#039;s a plus. In other areas I wish he&#039;d move with greater urgency, also, such as prosecuting anyone who tortured or spied on us illegally, despite the obvious political risks. I can understand why he&#039;s not, and I suppose its a good thing that I don&#039;t agree with him completely.

One more thing, at the risk of thread derailment. His interview with Islamic television was a brilliant tactical move. The only way to truly defeat Islamic fundamentalism is to destroy its popular support. I have no more regard for Islam than I do for something I&#039;d wipe off the bottom of my shoe so as not to track it into my house, but I&#039;m glad he&#039;s extending an open hand and not a closed fist. &quot;Bomb them back to the stone age&quot;, is the attitude of so many on the right. Of course, these people in third-world shitholes already live in the stone age which is why asinine concepts like Islam can thrive in the first place. 

If a long-term, concerted effort can be made to improve education, health care, industry and the economies of such places as Afghanistan and Sudan, al-Qaeda will have fewer dark places in which to hide. 

Of course we have our own fundies to deal with here, as well, but at least they&#039;re not strapping on bombs and strolling into daycare centers to do God&#039;s work. Sure, they&#039;re trying to undermine science, interfere with women&#039;s reproductive freedom, revise history to fit their agenda, and demonize certain groups for their own advantage, and they must be confronted. Maybe Obama won&#039;t go as far as I&#039;d like on that score, but I don&#039;t think he&#039;s going to allow it to get any worse, and that&#039;s a win, kind of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as Republicans are concerned, I think they&#8217;re walking into a trap. For two elections now they&#8217;ve shown a complete lack of awareness of the country&#8217;s mood. If they think opposing a popular new president on a bill intended to jump-start the economy so as to please their precious base is wise, they&#8217;re going to learn a hard lesson. Obama&#8217;s trip to Capitol Hill was brilliant because, by reaching out to them, Republicans will be the bad guys if this thing doesn&#8217;t pass. </p>
<p>I also agree with Ron that the Democrats (Obama and a few others notwithstanding) have forgotten how to stand up for what is right. With their numerical advantages in both houses, they ought to be able to pass whatever they want. But I sense they&#8217;re already becoming drunk with power by playing by the same rules the Republicans used for years. I actually think Obama will have more problems, going forward, with his own party than with Republicans. </p>
<p>Getting back to the original point of this article, I wish Obama were more enlightened on matters of gay equality, but he&#8217;s already light-years beyond his predecessor, so in all, that&#8217;s a plus. In other areas I wish he&#8217;d move with greater urgency, also, such as prosecuting anyone who tortured or spied on us illegally, despite the obvious political risks. I can understand why he&#8217;s not, and I suppose its a good thing that I don&#8217;t agree with him completely.</p>
<p>One more thing, at the risk of thread derailment. His interview with Islamic television was a brilliant tactical move. The only way to truly defeat Islamic fundamentalism is to destroy its popular support. I have no more regard for Islam than I do for something I&#8217;d wipe off the bottom of my shoe so as not to track it into my house, but I&#8217;m glad he&#8217;s extending an open hand and not a closed fist. &#8220;Bomb them back to the stone age&#8221;, is the attitude of so many on the right. Of course, these people in third-world shitholes already live in the stone age which is why asinine concepts like Islam can thrive in the first place. </p>
<p>If a long-term, concerted effort can be made to improve education, health care, industry and the economies of such places as Afghanistan and Sudan, al-Qaeda will have fewer dark places in which to hide. </p>
<p>Of course we have our own fundies to deal with here, as well, but at least they&#8217;re not strapping on bombs and strolling into daycare centers to do God&#8217;s work. Sure, they&#8217;re trying to undermine science, interfere with women&#8217;s reproductive freedom, revise history to fit their agenda, and demonize certain groups for their own advantage, and they must be confronted. Maybe Obama won&#8217;t go as far as I&#8217;d like on that score, but I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s going to allow it to get any worse, and that&#8217;s a win, kind of.</p>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-33720</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-33720</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s important to note that although the Republicans can fillibuster, doing so is more dangerous from a re-election standpoint.  What the Democrats need to start doing is acting like a majority party and push around the Republicans.  Phrase the debate to show that they are the ones obstructing progress, not the Dems.  Democrats have always sucked at doing that.  Right now the prevailing thought is &quot;reaching across the aisle&quot; but if Republicans don&#039;t meet them halfway, it won&#039;t work.  I think a month or two of this will wear down Obama&#039;s nerves and you might start seeing him pressure the other party leaders (AHEM HARRY REID AHEM AHEM) to stand up and put pressure back.  I think a quick solution to Republican obstructionism is simply to force a &lt;em&gt;real&lt;/em&gt; fillibuster.  Once it goes from being a procedural move where they all get to go home and turns back into needing to man the floor 24/7, we might see actual compromise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s important to note that although the Republicans can fillibuster, doing so is more dangerous from a re-election standpoint.  What the Democrats need to start doing is acting like a majority party and push around the Republicans.  Phrase the debate to show that they are the ones obstructing progress, not the Dems.  Democrats have always sucked at doing that.  Right now the prevailing thought is &#8220;reaching across the aisle&#8221; but if Republicans don&#8217;t meet them halfway, it won&#8217;t work.  I think a month or two of this will wear down Obama&#8217;s nerves and you might start seeing him pressure the other party leaders (AHEM HARRY REID AHEM AHEM) to stand up and put pressure back.  I think a quick solution to Republican obstructionism is simply to force a <em>real</em> fillibuster.  Once it goes from being a procedural move where they all get to go home and turns back into needing to man the floor 24/7, we might see actual compromise.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Eyges</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-33681</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Eyges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-33681</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If Democrats can gain ground and, even more important, good liberal Democrats can gain ground (either by replacing a Republican or a bad incumbant Dem), then I will be even happier than I was in November.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;ve been thinking about this over the past couple of days. The romance of the inauguration has been over for only a few days, and already the Republicans, including McCain, are opposing him (does that guy have &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; independent opinions any more?). We may have to wait another two years, and hope that enough people continue to wake up to vote even more of them out of office - but then we&#039;ll only have two years left. It won&#039;t be enough time. I&#039;m not convinced that it isn&#039;t too late &lt;i&gt;now&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If Democrats can gain ground and, even more important, good liberal Democrats can gain ground (either by replacing a Republican or a bad incumbant Dem), then I will be even happier than I was in November.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking about this over the past couple of days. The romance of the inauguration has been over for only a few days, and already the Republicans, including McCain, are opposing him (does that guy have <i>any</i> independent opinions any more?). We may have to wait another two years, and hope that enough people continue to wake up to vote even more of them out of office &#8211; but then we&#8217;ll only have two years left. It won&#8217;t be enough time. I&#8217;m not convinced that it isn&#8217;t too late <i>now</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-33662</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-33662</guid>
		<description>Thomas - Good point, except that the 80s conservative prophet was not exactly pro-union when it wasn&#039;t to help his own ass, so I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s a good example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas &#8211; Good point, except that the 80s conservative prophet was not exactly pro-union when it wasn&#8217;t to help his own ass, so I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s a good example.</p>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-33661</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-33661</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Democrats sold out liberalism years ago. It’s time they’re held accountable.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t disagree with that statement, but it only goes to support my point further: Obama is a &quot;moderate democrat.&quot;  The definition of Republican these days (even moderate) involves a great deal of fascist behavior which Obama does not exhibit.

On the bright side, the &quot;radical left&quot; movement seems to have a lot more steam than the &quot;radical right&quot; so hopefully we can continue this trend leftward.  It&#039;s common in midterm elections for the president&#039;s party to lose ground.  If Democrats can gain ground and, even more important, good liberal Democrats can gain ground (either by replacing a Republican or a bad incumbant Dem), then I will be even happier than I was in November.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Democrats sold out liberalism years ago. It’s time they’re held accountable.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with that statement, but it only goes to support my point further: Obama is a &#8220;moderate democrat.&#8221;  The definition of Republican these days (even moderate) involves a great deal of fascist behavior which Obama does not exhibit.</p>
<p>On the bright side, the &#8220;radical left&#8221; movement seems to have a lot more steam than the &#8220;radical right&#8221; so hopefully we can continue this trend leftward.  It&#8217;s common in midterm elections for the president&#8217;s party to lose ground.  If Democrats can gain ground and, even more important, good liberal Democrats can gain ground (either by replacing a Republican or a bad incumbant Dem), then I will be even happier than I was in November.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/766/the-gay-agenda-enters-the-white-house/comment-page-1#comment-33639</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=766#comment-33639</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not really practical to define certain positions as liberal or conservative in any sense besides the climate of a given moment.

Remember that it was a Republican who championed anti-business trust busting and the expansion of the national park service and a Democrat that oversaw most of Vietnam. The great conservative prophet of the 80&#039;s was also the only president to have also have been head of a labor union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not really practical to define certain positions as liberal or conservative in any sense besides the climate of a given moment.</p>
<p>Remember that it was a Republican who championed anti-business trust busting and the expansion of the national park service and a Democrat that oversaw most of Vietnam. The great conservative prophet of the 80&#8242;s was also the only president to have also have been head of a labor union.</p>
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