The Separation of Logic and Fundie

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.
—Abraham Lincoln

So why don’t fundies ever take Honest Abe’s advice?

I was listening to the local talk radio station tonight. Gene Burns is very thoughtful and lays out his case well, so even when I disagree with him, I can see the logic he uses. That’s rare in talk radio. One of his other endearing traits is that when a crackpot calls in, he lets them stay on the line a while—purely for entertainment purposes. The longer they talk, the more they show off their ignorance.

The call he got tonight is both funny and sad. It’s funny that somebody can be this ignorant, and it’s sad that there are so many like him. What you’ll hear is a pig-headed desire to remain misinformed.

For some reason, it is very important to fundies to believe that the United States was founded as a Christian country exclusively by good Christians. I don’t know why this fiction is so vital to their own sense of self worth. I’ve always assumed that if they can sell this fiction to the rest of us, that we’ll just agree to let them merge church and state. I’m sure that is the motivation of the national leaders, such as Pat Robertson, James Dobson, etc. I just don’t see what Fundie the Plumber or Fundie Sixpack (OK, so we need a good name for the common small-town fundie) get out of that deal. It can’t just be about theocracy. There has to be something more personal and more critical to their identity as Christians. Maybe they just can’t fathom the possibility that this isn’t God’s Chosen Country.

Anyway, have a listen to this call. He’s ignorant of the First Amendment, misinformed about history, and even misinformed about Christianity! In other words, he is typical of his breed.

You need a Flash plug-in to hear this!

23 Responses to “The Separation of Logic and Fundie”

  1. Ed Says:

    That was a very good listen. I was hoping to find a download so I could listen on a portable device later though! I have enjoyed the website for years.

  2. Jeff Eyges Says:

    How did Gene Burns wind up in SF? I remember him from when he was here in Boston; a friend was friendly with him. I thought he moved the chocolate business, along with the entire extended family, to Orlando years ago.

  3. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Am I the only one not seeing the audio player at all on this page?

  4. freddies_dead Says:

    The usual fundie tactics – if you don’t like what you hear, just shout your ignorant rubbish louder so you don’t have to hear it.

  5. Ron Britton Says:

    Ed:

    That was a very good listen. I was hoping to find a download so I could listen on a portable device later though!

    I don’t support downloads, because I’m probably in enough trouble just having it on my site. If you look at the page source, you’ll see the link. You might be able to extract it directly somehow.

    However, if you’re quick (i.e., before next Tuesday), you can download the entire show from here. Once there, you’ll need to click on Tuesday. Then grab the 9–10PM file. That’s also a higher quality file. I down-rezzed this one to save bandwidth.

    I have enjoyed the website for years.

    Have you tried therapy?

  6. Ron Britton Says:

    Jeff:

    How did Gene Burns wind up in SF? I remember him from when he was here in Boston…. I thought he moved the chocolate business, along with the entire extended family, to Orlando years ago.

    He’s been out here for years. I didn’t know he had a chocolate business. Maybe he sold it. I know that at least some of his family still lives in Florida.

  7. Ron Britton Says:

    PL:

    Am I the only one not seeing the audio player at all on this page?

    I’m not surprised it’s missing. Try adding some space to the bottom of the post. That’s another thing I have to fix. There isn’t enough space at the bottom, so any graphics at the bottom of a post are getting clipped. If you look at the HTML for that post, you’ll see I added a blank space after the player. That allowed the whole thing to appear for me. I suspect IE8 is just more sensitive.

  8. Ron Britton Says:

    Dead Fred:

    The usual fundie tactics – if you don’t like what you hear, just shout your ignorant rubbish louder so you don’t have to hear it.

    Of course it’s typical. In fact, if you read some of the comments on that page, you’ll see they’re doing it right there! Oh, how I love irony.

  9. Thomas Says:

    On the subject of the Framers’ beliefs, Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to Peter Carr:

    Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.

  10. Nick Says:

    Never fight with an unarmed man.

    ZING!

    Gene needs a hold button, like Matt Dillahunty, so he can actually get his point across without having to shout over the caller.

  11. OtherRob Says:

    Excellent clip. 🙂

    I suspect I would like Gene if I could hear him on a regular basis.

  12. davros Says:

    that was wonderful
    i loved the “I never fight with an unarmed man”

  13. Parrotlover77 Says:

    I’m not surprised it’s missing. Try adding some space to the bottom of the post. That’s another thing I have to fix. There isn’t enough space at the bottom, so any graphics at the bottom of a post are getting clipped. If you look at the HTML for that post, you’ll see I added a blank space after the player. That allowed the whole thing to appear for me. I suspect IE8 is just more sensitive.

    I opened up the Dev Tools and tried fiddling with the HTML and CSS. It turns out there is plenty of space, it’s just not rendering the object tag. What’s weirder is if I take the object’s URL and open that in its own tab, it works fine. If it’s working for others with IE7, I wouldn’t sweat it, it’s probably just a IE 8 beta bug. 🙂

  14. Parrotlover77 Says:

    On the subject of the Framers’ beliefs, Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to Peter Carr:

    Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.

    Jefferson will always be a hero of mine. The skepticism and value of reason over tradition just brings a smile to my face.

    That line is as relevant today as ever. If your god really is the one true creator of this universe and he gave us all the attributes we have (created in his image and so on), would he truly not value reason over blind obedience?

  15. Mr. Creazil Says:

    That was beautiful. Could you post a download? I want to keep this one.

  16. Jeff Eyges Says:

    He’s been out here for years. I didn’t know he had a chocolate business. Maybe he sold it. I know that at least some of his family still lives in Florida.

    Yeah, he had a handmade chocolate business for years, employed most of his extended family. He was always big on taking care of them. I remember, now, though – the business was always in FL. He came up here for a number of years, but I think the winters got to be too much for him (it’s thirteen degrees here now, so I can’t say I blame him). I think I remember our mutual friend telling me that he was getting ready to move back down there. I guess he got sidetracked.

    From his bio page at WKIS:

    For 14 years starting in 1971, Gene served as a talk show host, commentator and program director at WKIS-AM 740 in Orlando. Gene even ventured in to the candy business while in Orlando (where his surviving family members live). Do you remember Gene Burns Chocolates, in Winter Park? Gene would have more than one stop at WKIS in his career. Gene arrived from WEEI-AM in Boston in 1971. He would be lured to WCAU-AM in Philadelphia in 1981, but would return to Orlando and WKIS in 1982(?). Gene would run for President in 1984, on the Libertarian Party ticket. Gene was named Operations manager at WKIS in 1984. He moved to WRKO-AM in Boston in 1985, where his show on became the top-rated midday show in the area. In the fall of 1992, he left Boston for WOR-AM 710 in New York. His program was carried on 162 stations across the country. In 1992 Gene was named one of the “25 Greatest Radio Talk Show Hosts of All Time”, by Talkers Magazine. In a dispute with WOR management Gene walked out with (with 1 year remaining on his contract). After leaving WOR, he underwent very complicated neck surgery which kept him housebound in New York for a couple of months. Then In 1994, Gene headed to KGO-AM 810 in San Francisco when he suffered a mild heart attack. Now heard nightly San Francisco on KGO. Gene also does a program about food, wine and travel; “Dining Around with Gene Burns”.

  17. Ed Says:

    I found the source, thanks for the reply! Bay of Fundie ROCKS! Thanks for the work you do on it. Ed

  18. Troy Says:

    A good number of years I saw a televangelist who was selling tapes with the same thesis: the first ammendment guarantees the right to pick your own christian denomination. How they read this into the first ammendment and the secular constitution is beyond me. The best I can come up with wishful thinking and weekly brainwashing.

  19. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Troy – It’s easy. Their’s is the only “true religion” because every other so-called “religion” is actually just a cult. I mean it has to be because if Christianity is right, all the others have to be wrong, right? Plus, I mean obviously “freedom of religion” never meant “freedom from religion.” I mean golly it’s obvious.

  20. Thomas Says:

    It’s also important to point out that, even if the Xian dominionists were to succeed in pushing this interpretation of the 1st amendment and the USA became a country composed entirely of church going Xians, the evangelicals would then find some denomination to vilify, probably Catholics.

    A faith based on adversarialism cannot flourish without an enemy.

  21. Mr. Vorhias Says:

    Jeezy creezy, that caller was annoying.

    But I love Gene Burns’ last word though:

    I’d love to have a battle of wits with you, but I have a firm principle that I never fight with an unarmed man.

  22. Sarah Says:

    I remember Laura Ingalls Wilder writing in the Little House series, “God is America’s king,” as opposed to other countries having actual kings.

    Even if the framers *did* have religion in mind, that doesn’t mean that it is what we should follow today. The times they have a changed.

    Not My God
    http://www.sarahtrachtenberg.com

  23. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Although I agree with your interpretation of the “living, breathing constitution,” many people do not. And that is why arguments over “what the framers intended” consumes so much time in political debate!