The Big Bang model (and related early universe models, like inflation) precisely predict much of how the universe is today down to the quantum level. It’s pretty incredible stuff.

Creationism has no testable mode of action, no supporting evidence, and makes absolutely no predictions! You can pretty much boil it down to “stuff is the way it is due to unknowable invisible untestable forces.”

That’s beyond useless.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/rogue-scientist-has-own-scientific-method,1976/?utm_source=related

That’s my biggest problem with Pascal’s Wager. It’s very cynical. I would think God could see through that.

Perhaps I’m just reading into this too much. I think I’m perhaps projecting a pet peeve of mine onto the God canvas.

The one argument against the wager that I really wish followers would thoughtfully respond to is the “am I following the correct religion” question. The person presenting the wager against a nonbeliever always expresses it as a binary choice — a coin flip. But even playing by the assumptions of the wager, it is not a 50/50 chance. There are countless religions in the world. And I’m not being hyperbolic by saying “countless” because there are many religions there were invented and forgotten with no record of their existence. What if one of those is right?

“Because I have faith so I know” is not a satisfactory response to this problem because it is relies on circular logic.

I won’t bother listing the other many ways Pascal’s Wager is ridiculous. I just want that one scenario honestly answered.

I wonder…have any of those who’ve posted studied the Bible on your own?

I haven’t read the entire thing. I’ve read large parts of it. I studied it in college.

If I died tomorrow and this was all there is…I have no problem with it.

You’re playing Pascal’s Wager. The logic may appeal to you, but it does not sway the rest of us. We have all considered it and find it unconvincing. If it works for you, though, that’s great. I’m not out to change your mind or take your faith away from you.

If you’re interested in actual research and not just scoffing and feeling superior

The scoffing and superiority only comes out of the frustration of hearing the same tired old arguments over and over; the same flawed logic; the same fake evidence.

I’ll happily provide links or the names of reference books to you so you can study for yourselves.

I’m always open to seeing new data or new arguments. If you have something that is genuinely different from everything else that is widely available, go ahead. (Be aware that any comment that contains two or more links will automatically end up in the moderation queue. As long as you’re not a spammer, I’ll approve the comment within 12 hours.)

I should warn you that I have already looked at all of the common stuff. It is all flawed. I’m not saying that out of any sort of arrogance about “real science” being superior or any sort of insecurity about my beliefs being challenged. The issue is that all claims have to be supported by evidence. All claims have to be challenged by other scientists and stand up to peer review. All science plays by the same rules.

Every creation “scientist” I’ve ever met has had a complete misunderstanding of the data or the theories or the process of science. Show me something that isn’t flawed by that myopia, and I’ll be happy to consider it.

I’ve read a lot of creationist articles. I’ve been to creationist seminars. I actively seek this stuff out and examine it. So far, it has all fallen short. Very, very short.

But please, if you have something better, I’d love to see it.

Also be aware that there are thousands of Christian sects. Each one interprets the Bible differently. It’s very easy to find a way to make the Bible say what you want it to say. It is very easy to mold it after the fact to fit a set of data. If you claim that science “proves” something in the Bible, it has to be something concrete and unambiguous. If you read the article above, you’ll see how Ken Ham takes a very loose interpretation of a couple of sentences in the Bible and fits it to some scientific statement (and that statement is often taken out of context or completely misrepresented).

I’m a Christian and I do a lot of research. I’m reading your comments. I don’t have a problem with the fact that I might be wrong about the Bible or my faith. If I died tomorrow and this was all there is…I have no problem with it.

Now…what if I’m right? Can you say the same?

The research I have done has shown me a plethora of evidence to support my faith in the Bible, specifically in recent discoveries by archeologists, scientists, astronomers, and medical science.

If you’re interested in actual research and not just scoffing and feeling superior, I’ll happily provide links or the names of reference books to you so you can study for yourselves.

(Note, by research I mean actual research on your own with an actual Bible and archeological, historical, or scientific texts, not just regurgitation of online articles or bits of verses stuck in someone else’s book or article)

Just flip it around as the “hate the sin, love the sinner” saying, but with “stupid” and, um “stup”. That’ll learn ‘em! Learn ‘em good!