Comment of the Day, #9

It did happen here

This is an extremely occasional feature that I only run when I remember I have it, and when somebody posts an exceptionally insightful comment. I like to elevate that comment to the top, so everyone can see it.

Today I’m bringing two comments to your attention. Both are by anti_supernaturalist.

His first comment was in response to “Obama Aborts Osama”:

• Pro-birth ideology poses an international public health threat

Religious anti-abortion ranters are not pro-life. They are pro-birth. There’s a big difference.

By dismissing women’s rights over their own bodies, fundies expect to regain control over reproduction and birth in accord with pro-natalist dictates. Pro-natalism, a term from the 19th century, sells a poisonous nostrum of sexual customs which do not belong in a contemporary planet-wide ethos which must treat women equally.

Fundie pretensions to secular power over abortion are not pro-life. They demand enforcement of ancient (and modern) near-eastern cult practices which amount to total reproductive repression: that no impediment whatsoever on births be permitted by law.

No sexual practices which preclude conception, homosexuality foremost. No chemical contraception. No physical barriers to conception. No abortions, not even in cases of rape, incest.

What happens to mother and child after birth is irrelevant to the men who run right-wing political and religious institutions.

Pro-natalism is the sexual theory of “tea party” ignorati, myriad fundie sects, mormons, and the rc-church.

Pro-birth, a public health disaster, is pro-mass-death. It creates disease, poverty, and ignorance worldwide by fostering overpopulation, damning safe (and joyous) non-reproductive sex, forbidding responsible sex education, and blocking medical research.

His second comment was in response to “Planned Abortionhood”:

• The real issue — social control

Fundie xian males, like their fundie muslim and jewish brothers, shudder at a technological world in which mental agility has replaced physical strength as the core measure of economic utility.

This reordering of values strips away a ancient core faith-based lie: god-ordained male supremacy.

Unresolved to this day is a decades long struggle over gender equality — equal productive and reproductive rights.

Whom does The House and Senate back? The relevant group, women themselves, tens of millions of them?

Or white male second-hand-god salesmen? Spewing pro-birth at any price. One hundred year old social darwinism tarted up as “family values”.

Fundies are obvious offenders, but RCs run a close second.

Women’s aspirations, self realization, reproductive self-determination must be crushed by direct force.

Xian domestic terrorism, like muslim domestic terrorism, humiliates, intimidates, and batters women back to submission.

Protected by complicit federal and state officials, cells of xian thugs have been targeting women and their humane values for decades.

Fundie irrationality drives scientific knowledge about sex from America’s schools just as it drives medical research abroad.

Xian political ideologues must eventually embrace state totalitarianism. Their “truths” can never win popular support. An open society will repudiate their nihilism composed of literalist lies, morally repugnant beliefs, and puritanical rules.

19 Responses to “Comment of the Day, #9”

  1. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Both excellent choices and both excellent and insightful comments.

    Whom does The House and Senate back? The relevant group, women themselves, tens of millions of them?

    Or white male second-hand-god salesmen? Spewing pro-birth at any price. One hundred year old social darwinism tarted up as “family values”.

    My only comment on this is that it’s not exactly all women vs a small group of fundies with power. Many women are quite happy being subjugated into a “traditional” patriarchal family structure. Watch TLC for a few minutes and all their shows glorifying various breeds of fundies and you will see a truly bizarre group of women completely satisfied and defensive about the lifestyle. Or just go to a Baptist church. So, there are many female enablers.

    I should clarify that, in general, I don’t blame those women. For the most part, they are victims. But politically it’s very easy to be a conservative on the side of pro-life when your Sunday propoganda machine has brainwashed over half of all males and females for generations. It does not take much to swing to that side and it is an easy political calculation. Even scarier is that we’ve actually gone backwards on reproductive health over the past several decades, from a legislative standpoint. We are probably less than ten years away from a re-examination of Roe v Wade.

    So next time somebody isn’t too excited about the Democratic presidental candidate, I really hope they realize what’s at stake at the Supreme Court. An entire generation of women (maybe several) will be affected by the outcome.

  2. Sue Blue Says:

    The fundy’s ideal woman: Silent, Stupid, Obedient and Pregnant.

    I actually witnessed vows to this effect at a wedding once. I had to restrain myself from standing up and screaming “What the hell is wrong with you people?!?”

    Really, I sometimes think that what they’d really like is an inflatable sex doll that could clean house and incubate their (male, of course!) heirs.

  3. bunkie Says:

    Sue Blue – you forgot “and in the kitchen”. “Silent, Stupid, Obedient and Pregnant in the Kitchen”

  4. anti_supernaturalist Says:

    ”The practice of Christianity is nihilism.” — Nietzsche

    An irremovable legacy wraps us all around like an ill-intentioned python. Strive as we might, we will never successfully de-xianize ourselves.

    Xian ignorati from the beginning have exalted in reactive hatred. Their innermost affirmation is negation. It arises from self-loathing (incurable sinfulness) inverted into vast ego inflation (salvation snobbery).

    We stink, but stinking is godly.

    Nothing has changed in 2,000 years. The xian assault on a cultured intellect begins with Saul of Tarsus (pseudonym ‘Paul’ fl 50-65 CE). While preaching the disgusting doctrine of bodily resurrection (Acts17:18 NIV), he was laughed at by Epicurean and Stoic philosophers in the Agora of Athens

    Paul creates the hellenistic Christ-cult; he is a mentally ill (hysteric) zealot whose morally diseased god is himself writ large:

    Brothers [!], think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are…(1Cor1:26-28 NIV).

    God chose “the things that are not — to nullify the things that are…” From Paul onward pure xian nihilism gets injected into the marrow of western culture, poisoning it even today.

    Faith, the trusting suspension of disbelief, is theater of the absurd.

    Trusting any proxy — priest, pastor, rabbi, imam — of the 1-god of the Big-3 Monster Theisms is beneath me.

    the anti_supernaturalist

  5. Parrotlover77 Says:

    The fundy’s ideal woman: Silent, Stupid, Obedient and Pregnant.

    I would say that it’s changed slightly. They do not mind outspoken women. In fact, I think they favor it now. The key is that the women need to be preaching the same patriarchal traditions that the fundies already agree with. If women willfully and loudly submit to their oppressive place in the fundie family and society, they are treasured even more than the silent sufferers of yesteryear.

    I actually witnessed vows to this effect at a wedding once. I had to restrain myself from standing up and screaming “What the hell is wrong with you people?!?”

    Indeed. It is surprising to those who live in bluer states, but in many mainstream fundie traditions, OBEY is still a vow… but only for the women-folk, of course.

    A newish vow, which I find highly amusing, is , “I promise not to divorce you.” As if adding that line strengthens the marriage somehow. Oh well, I always thought I had an escape valve, but now that I know I don’t, I should reconsider!

    If you are already vowing to be with somebody for life, through all possible good and bad circumstances, that promise is redundant. Of course nobody plans for divorce! Divorce happens because sometimes relationships change. Fundies are so fucking stupid.

  6. Sue Blue Says:

    What really sucks is that the rights women have won through long and hard-fought battles should even be questioned, and the protection of the law so sketchy and thin. In most states domestic violence against women is still a misdemeanor, while beating the the shit out of a man is felony assault. Many christians (including my own former church) still believe that a woman is a man’s property – because it says so in the Bible. Crap I never thought I’d see, such as public figures coming right out and saying that they think women should not be allowed to vote, successful attempts to undermine Roe V. Wade, denying basic healthcare and control over their own bodies, attempts to outlaw divorce and premarital or extramarital sex (Texas), and so on and so forth, all exemplify the extent to which the bronze age bullshit has permeated society. The dark ages have never seemed so close in time.

  7. Sue Blue Says:

    Oh, and I forgot to mention those female enablers. Apparently, due to lifelong inhalation of christian retardogenic vapors, these vapid ciphers can’t wait to trade in their futures and basic human rights for the glorious, god-given privilege of being owned by a man. You know – all that “I was made out of Adam’s rib to walk by his side”, and “The man is the head of the woman as Christ is the head of the church” patriarchal propaganda. To these dimbulbs, a black eye is probably a badge of honor – “My man is so jealous…he must really care about me!”
    These stupid twats (yes, I can say that, being a woman) would have us all plummeting back into the dark ages with our legs spread and our minds dead. After all, if you don’t have to think for yourself, you don’t have to be responsible for anything; just let Daddy take care of you.
    This just pisses me off no end.

  8. ericsan Says:

    Ron, are you going to the Regional Atheists Meeting in Oakland? It’s naturally scheduled for the rapture week-end.

  9. Ron Britton Says:

    Ericsan:

    Yes. I’ll be there on Saturday. Are you going?

  10. Parrotlover77 Says:

    @Sue Blue – As a male, nothing is a bigger turn-off to me than a woman with no ambitions outside the household. I wish more of my gender-kin felt the same way. That would fix the patriarchal bullshit quickly.

    @Ron / @ericsan – Don’t forget to take pictures of the fundies ascending upwards in the sky. I’ll probably be sleeping in, as I always do on Saturday, so I’d love some firsthand accounts after I navigate the gauntlets of upturned road from the worldwide earthquakes.

  11. Ron Britton Says:

    PL:

    I heard that the ascension won’t happen until 9 PM EDT. You should be awake for it, unless you sleep in really late.

    We’ll be at ground zero though, I’m assuming. Surely God will start with Mr. Camping himself and then work his way outward. It ought to make a good YouTube video.

  12. Sue Blue Says:

    I hear the weather’s going to be beautiful here this weekend. I’m looking forward to fundies leaving the parks, beaches, and hiking trails to us hellbound nature-lovers. Plus, I’ve got my telescope out on the deck. It’s trained on the full moon, but if I’m lucky I’ll catch at least a few idiots as they blast out of the troposphere.

  13. Ron Britton Says:

    Sue Blue:

    You can get a camera attachment for your telescope. It would be a worthwhile investment. Keep the telescope pointing at the moon. You should be able to get some great silhouette shots of the fundies passing in front of it.

  14. Parrotlover77 Says:

    @Ron – I had not heard about the 9PM deadline. So what time zone does god operate in? It better not interrupt Dr. Who!

  15. ericsan Says:

    Not going — I have to train for my rollerblading marathon!
    Latest I heard about this silliness: a friend of mine is invited to a “looting party” and apparently people are planning pranks where they will leave piles of clothes on sidewalks for xtians to believe they belonged to raptured people.
    Good times :)

  16. Ron Britton Says:

    Parrotlover:

    I had heard the rapture was happening at 6 PM PDT, so I did the logical thing (not recommended around fundies) and determined that it must be happening at 9 PM EDT.

    It turns out that the rapture is happening at 6 PM local time! It starts in New Zealand and slowly travels around the world as the Earth rotates. I guess we can only ascend to heaven when we’re lined up directly below it. God can’t reach around the Earth and grab you on the other side (In other words, God can’t even give us a reach around!).

    So this whole rapture-with-the-time-zones and watching it start in New Zealand means that this whole event will be just like Y2K, except even less eventful!

    It also raises the interesting question of Daylight Saving Time. If the rapture is supposed to happen at 6 PM local time, then people living in places without DST will be raptured at 6 PM, while people living in places with DST will be raptured at the equivalent of 5 PM (standard time). Or in other words, we’re making God dance to our clocks. It’s amazing how much power we mere mortals have over an omnipotent being.

    Another effect of the rapture is that if Ray Comfort had never left New Zealand (something we all wish for), we would have been rid of him about 19 hours earlier than we actually will be.

    As I’m writing this, it’s almost 6 PM in New Zealand, so we’ll know very soon who has to go and who gets to stay.

  17. Sue Blue Says:

    Ron – sort of like E.T…or witches on broomsticks…I’m screwing the Nikon to the ol’ scope right now.

  18. RivenDusk Says:

    @ Sue Blue

    Retardogenic… I’ll have to remember that one, that’s rather good.

    @Parrotlover

    Yes, they don’t mind their female folk being more outspoken and engaged in church activities and the like, but still encourage them to be baby-factories. That is their godly duty after all, crank out more little soldiers for their god

  19. RivenDusk Says:

    Hmmm… the page interpreted my greater than, lesser than symbols of my open sarcasm/close sarcasm as actual HTML and auto-edited them out for that last line… darn.

    Just so y’all know, I think that childbirth is just fine, it’s just that I really don’t like the cultural indoctrination that the sum of a woman’s worth to be based on the function of her ovaries.

    Love the top quotes Ron, ty for sharing!