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	<title>Comments on: This Stein is No Einstein</title>
	<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein</link>
	<description>Keeping the Radical Right at Bay</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Ron Britton</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-12628</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-12628</guid>
					<description>Larry, that's kind of off topic here.  We're discussing Ben Stein and the ID creationists.  You're the only one who brought up &lt;i&gt;American Theocracy&lt;/i&gt;.  Errors in that book should be brought up with its author or on a thread devoted to it.

If you're trying to use that book as an example of oppression of Christians, it's a pretty weak argument.  One error made by one author in a book few people have read can hardly be considered oppression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry, that&#8217;s kind of off topic here.  We&#8217;re discussing Ben Stein and the ID creationists.  You&#8217;re the only one who brought up <i>American Theocracy</i>.  Errors in that book should be brought up with its author or on a thread devoted to it.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re trying to use that book as an example of oppression of Christians, it&#8217;s a pretty weak argument.  One error made by one author in a book few people have read can hardly be considered oppression.
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		<title>by: Larry Shallenberger</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-12621</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-12621</guid>
					<description>That oppression swords swings both ways. As much as I appreciated much in the book "American Theocracy" it was irresponsible that he over estimated the membership of the Southern Baptists by 10,000,000. Of course, a bogeyman isn't a bogeyman without  ample size.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That oppression swords swings both ways. As much as I appreciated much in the book &#8220;American Theocracy&#8221; it was irresponsible that he over estimated the membership of the Southern Baptists by 10,000,000. Of course, a bogeyman isn&#8217;t a bogeyman without  ample size.
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		<title>by: D</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11706</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 18:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11706</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think that from a strategic stand point what the IDers are doing here is pretty smart. I don’t know if it was a calculated plan but it reeks of PR spin. Just the idea of turning God into a “scientific theory” then writing some articles that have no basis in science, having said articles turned down because they have no basis in science and then claiming they were turned down because of a vast darwinist conspiracy is pretty good PR but then when you combine that with a society that as a whole has very little understanding of what science is or how exactly peer review works and you’re able to sow seeds of doubt into a lot of minds. Overall, if it’s intentional, it’s an underhanded practice but one that will work on a lot of people.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree.  It also plays on the paranoid conspiracy theories that seem to be lurking just under the surface in a lot of less than rational people.  Like, "ooh, Big Science is trying to hide something from us!  The big bad 'darwinists' don't want you to find out about their strangling dogmatic orthodoxy!  They're out to kill God! blah blah blah"  It seems so easy to whip people up into a total frenzy over nothing.  Add to this that a lot of fundy christians seem to think they're oppressed anyway......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think that from a strategic stand point what the IDers are doing here is pretty smart. I don’t know if it was a calculated plan but it reeks of PR spin. Just the idea of turning God into a “scientific theory” then writing some articles that have no basis in science, having said articles turned down because they have no basis in science and then claiming they were turned down because of a vast darwinist conspiracy is pretty good PR but then when you combine that with a society that as a whole has very little understanding of what science is or how exactly peer review works and you’re able to sow seeds of doubt into a lot of minds. Overall, if it’s intentional, it’s an underhanded practice but one that will work on a lot of people.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree.  It also plays on the paranoid conspiracy theories that seem to be lurking just under the surface in a lot of less than rational people.  Like, &#8220;ooh, Big Science is trying to hide something from us!  The big bad &#8216;darwinists&#8217; don&#8217;t want you to find out about their strangling dogmatic orthodoxy!  They&#8217;re out to kill God! blah blah blah&#8221;  It seems so easy to whip people up into a total frenzy over nothing.  Add to this that a lot of fundy christians seem to think they&#8217;re oppressed anyway&#8230;&#8230;
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		<title>by: Warren</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11695</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11695</guid>
					<description>I think that from a strategic stand point what the IDers are doing here is pretty smart. I don't know if it was a calculated plan but it reeks of PR spin. Just the idea of turning God into a "scientific theory" then writing some articles that have no basis in science, having said articles turned down because they have no basis in science and then claiming they were turned down because of a vast darwinist conspiracy is pretty good PR but then when you combine that with a society that as a whole has very little understanding of what science is or how exactly peer review works and you're able to sow seeds of doubt into a lot of minds. Overall, if it's intentional, it's an underhanded practice but one that will work on a lot of people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that from a strategic stand point what the IDers are doing here is pretty smart. I don&#8217;t know if it was a calculated plan but it reeks of PR spin. Just the idea of turning God into a &#8220;scientific theory&#8221; then writing some articles that have no basis in science, having said articles turned down because they have no basis in science and then claiming they were turned down because of a vast darwinist conspiracy is pretty good PR but then when you combine that with a society that as a whole has very little understanding of what science is or how exactly peer review works and you&#8217;re able to sow seeds of doubt into a lot of minds. Overall, if it&#8217;s intentional, it&#8217;s an underhanded practice but one that will work on a lot of people.
</p>
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		<title>by: Larry Shallenberger</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11664</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 02:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11664</guid>
					<description>Hello from www.childrensministryandculture.wordpress.com. 

We haven't taken any stance on the movie, we just note cultural trends that intersect with working with children and youth in the church. I did note Stein's remarks about Social Darwinism but didn't take a position on them. 

All the best...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello from <a href="http://www.childrensministryandculture.wordpress.com." rel="nofollow">www.childrensministryandculture.wordpress.com.</a> </p>
<p>We haven&#8217;t taken any stance on the movie, we just note cultural trends that intersect with working with children and youth in the church. I did note Stein&#8217;s remarks about Social Darwinism but didn&#8217;t take a position on them. </p>
<p>All the best&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: ParrotLover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11652</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11652</guid>
					<description>Okay, I stretched a little there and built a little bit of a strawman in the last argument, but you get my drift, I hope!  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I stretched a little there and built a little bit of a strawman in the last argument, but you get my drift, I hope!  <img src='http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />
</p>
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		<title>by: ParrotLover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11651</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11651</guid>
					<description>Ben Stein is very intelligent.  I agree with Ron about the blind spots.  Just from his game show way back when you could tell he has an encyclopedic recall of many historical facts.  Being intelligent in many things does not preclude a person from being ignorant about many other things.  And that is the problem with using him (or really anybody who does not specialize in a particular study) as an authoritative reference point for something they are not experts in!  But this is done very frequently with anti-evolutionists.  They'll find some random intelligent person (astronomer, physicist, historian, CEO, actor, ANYTHING except biologist, or to a lesser extent, geologist) who doesn't know much about modern evolutionary theory, and then they take one little statement like "well, I have my doubts" and then run with it as if that small doubt from this one non-expert means that every true expert on the planet is wrong and, through a gigantic leap in logic, the earth must be 5000 years old or some other silly nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben Stein is very intelligent.  I agree with Ron about the blind spots.  Just from his game show way back when you could tell he has an encyclopedic recall of many historical facts.  Being intelligent in many things does not preclude a person from being ignorant about many other things.  And that is the problem with using him (or really anybody who does not specialize in a particular study) as an authoritative reference point for something they are not experts in!  But this is done very frequently with anti-evolutionists.  They&#8217;ll find some random intelligent person (astronomer, physicist, historian, CEO, actor, ANYTHING except biologist, or to a lesser extent, geologist) who doesn&#8217;t know much about modern evolutionary theory, and then they take one little statement like &#8220;well, I have my doubts&#8221; and then run with it as if that small doubt from this one non-expert means that every true expert on the planet is wrong and, through a gigantic leap in logic, the earth must be 5000 years old or some other silly nonsense.
</p>
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		<title>by: Egaeus</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11647</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11647</guid>
					<description>The fact that you can breed animals (human or otherwise) to have desirable characteristics has been known for millenia, or as the YECs would say, since the beginning of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that you can breed animals (human or otherwise) to have desirable characteristics has been known for millenia, or as the YECs would say, since the beginning of time.
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		<title>by: Ron Britton</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11645</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11645</guid>
					<description>Tony:

Ben Stein isn't stupid, but (like many religious people) he has certain blind spots that interfere with rational thought.  He cowrote the movie.  I do think that he believes this stuff.  He has said in interviews that he believes in evolution but doesn't think it tells the whole story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony:</p>
<p>Ben Stein isn&#8217;t stupid, but (like many religious people) he has certain blind spots that interfere with rational thought.  He cowrote the movie.  I do think that he believes this stuff.  He has said in interviews that he believes in evolution but doesn&#8217;t think it tells the whole story.
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		<title>by: Tony Whitson</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11644</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11644</guid>
					<description>The movie appears to be thoroughly dishonest.

I'm not sure that Ben Stein is as stupid as his critics allege. He's just found easier ways to make tons of money since his days as an opinion journalist and political speech writer. I'm not convinced that he himself believes this nonsense that he's peddling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The movie appears to be thoroughly dishonest.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that Ben Stein is as stupid as his critics allege. He&#8217;s just found easier ways to make tons of money since his days as an opinion journalist and political speech writer. I&#8217;m not convinced that he himself believes this nonsense that he&#8217;s peddling.
</p>
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		<title>by: ParrotLover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11642</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11642</guid>
					<description>DAC - as others have said, so what, even if it was true?  (according to wikipedia, it doesn't appear to be.)

Even if Darwin was a child-eating, monkey-raping, serial killer, wouldn't change the fact that farmers have been proving evolution for centuries by selectively using only the seeds from plants that have the traits they want expressed more for the next growing season.  Welcome to evolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DAC - as others have said, so what, even if it was true?  (according to wikipedia, it doesn&#8217;t appear to be.)</p>
<p>Even if Darwin was a child-eating, monkey-raping, serial killer, wouldn&#8217;t change the fact that farmers have been proving evolution for centuries by selectively using only the seeds from plants that have the traits they want expressed more for the next growing season.  Welcome to evolution.
</p>
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		<title>by: ParrotLover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11640</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/342/this-stein-is-no-einstein#comment-11640</guid>
					<description>ARN is, if nothing else, amusingly hypocritical.

Isn't tying Hitler and eugenics to Darwin as an attack on evolutionary theory, uh, well, an ad hominem attack?  You'd think as often as they do it, they'd know how to spot it in the 'heated' blogosphere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ARN is, if nothing else, amusingly hypocritical.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t tying Hitler and eugenics to Darwin as an attack on evolutionary theory, uh, well, an ad hominem attack?  You&#8217;d think as often as they do it, they&#8217;d know how to spot it in the &#8216;heated&#8217; blogosphere.
</p>
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