The Wisdom of Kent Hovind
I haven’t posted much these last two weeks, because I’ve been busy. I’m hoping to have some more stuff soon. In the meantime, I went looking for something fun to give you for today.
I came across a website devoted to debunking Kent Hovind. That site is no longer being updated, as of January 2007, because Hovind is now serving a ten-year sentence for tax evasion. Nevertheless, the site has a wealth of information about this crackpot. I knew he was crazy, but I had no idea just how looney this toon was.
The quotations that follow are all from the “Quacky Quotes on Evolution” page. If you go there, you’ll find even more quotes like these, as well as references to where the quotes come from.
Now sit back and enjoy the “wisdom” of Kent Hovind. (Remember that Hovind is one of the big names in the creationism field. This gives you a good indication of how and what these people think.)
Every farmer on planet Earth counts on evolution not happening. They count on it. It doesn’t happen. People can believe whatever they want but whenever a farmer crossbreeds a cow he expects to get a cow not a kitten.
Do you know chimpanzees are still having babies? Why don’t they make another human?
Guess what happened to the T Rex. According to evolutionists the T Rex turned into a bird. … Man, those guys need some serious, serious help.
… so it’s totally wrong, bogus, and some bold faced lie that some professor told you that the Earth receives energy [from the Sun] and that is how [evolution] overcomes the Second Law [of Thermodynamics]. It’s just a bold face lie. It is true we receive energy but it is not going to overcome the Second Law.
Teaching the pagan religion of evolutionism is a waste of valuable class time and textbook space. It is also one of the reasons American kids don’t test as well in science as kids in other parts of the world.
There is definitely a conspiracy, but I don’t think that it is a human conspiracy. I don’t believe there is a smoke filled room where a group of men get together, and decide to teach evolution in all the schools. I believe that it is at a much higher level. I believe that it is a Satanic conspiracy. The reason these different people come to the same conclusion is not because they all met together; it is because they all work for the devil. He is their leader and they don’t even know it.
If Evolution is true, there is no Creator, so laws come from mans opinion. That is called a democracy, which is a terrible form of government. Democracies always degenerate into dictatorships. In America, it is sad to say, has become a democracy.
The Smithsonian Institute [sic] has 33,000 sets of human remains in their basement right now as you are reading this. Many of them were taken while the people were still alive. They were so desperate to find missing links, so desperate to prove their theory that they murdered people to prove it.
If evolution is true, you could not know that it’s true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. Think about that.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:27 am
That sort of utter crap is disturbing on a visceral level. Yeesh- it gives me the heebeejeebees.
November 1st, 2007 at 10:12 am
“Do you know chimpanzees are still having babies? Why don’t they make another human?”
DAMMIT CHIMPS! EVOLVE ALREADY! What’s taking them so damn long to evolve?!
Reminds me of the great scientific mind of Mel Gibson contemplating why “monkeys are still around” if evolution was real. It’s so hard for them to jump that mental hurdle, isn’t it? I remember asking myself that question back in 4th grade, when I was introduced to evolution in the biology science segment. I couldn’t figure it out for the life of me. But in my defense, I was only 9 years old. What’s their excuse?
November 1st, 2007 at 4:05 pm
wow! that some utter nutbaggery there, i knew he was a thief but not that he’s totally batf*kingly insane.
makes you wonder about his followers. believing this stuff should take away your right to vote, drive and leave the house without a nice nurse.
November 5th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Wow. I don’t know what bothers me more; the statement that the Smithsonian Institution is vivisecting people to prove evolution or how unbelievably incomprehensible the last statement was:
“If evolution is true, you could not know that it’s true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. Think about that.”
I mean it could easily read:
“If [God exists], you could not know that [he exists] because your brain is nothing but chemicals. Think about that.”
November 5th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
Some creationists are fairly smart. They’re just blinded by their need for the Bible to be 100% literally true. Those people will create some pretty convoluted, but logical in their own twisted way, stories to make the Bible fit enough reality to fool themselves and their followers.
Then there are people like Kent Hovind. I don’t know if the guy is stupid, batshit crazy, or both.
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:12 pm
EVOLUTION IS STUPID!!!!!!!
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:14 pm
If evolution is true, you could not know that it’s true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. Think about that.”
I mean it could easily read:
“If [God exists], you could not know that [he exists] because your brain is nothing but chemicals. Think about that.”
ur right
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Praying for Kent Hovind…..
He is doing a big job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
You mean he’s in the Big House!
April 8th, 2008 at 4:40 am
Kent Hovind should Have paid his taxes. But then again Some “High up” People should get their heads out of their Ass-holes and realise that the world is coming to an end because of their self centered lifes. Im disgusted in the way people act. They do not realise that there life only consists of 80 years. If LUCKY.What Happens after that…maybe you become an african swallow?? NO
Shuldn’t You all realise that we were made to serve JESUS. Do his works??
Stop messing around. Things You do in this life echoes into eternity.
Your accountable
April 8th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Did none of the “you need to find jeebus” posters pass the fifth grade? I know these aren’t formal essays and spelling mistakes are common (in my posts too), but come on! “Ass-holes?” Why the hyphen? “Your accountable.” What about “my accountable?” PEOPLE! If you don’t know the difference between “their,” “there,” and “they’re,” how can you POSSIBLY know the ultimate answer for eternal life?
April 8th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Parrotlover:
Here’s what I like about KGB’s comment:
I don’t know who these “High up People” are. High-up as in government officials? High-up as in an ivory tower? I’m wondering if it’s some sort of reference to bloggers who criticize Kent Hovind. I’m actually hoping that’s the intended meaning.
Just think. The world is coming to an end soon, because I think Kent Hovind is a retard!
April 8th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Probably all of the above. The persecution complex that comes with fundyism seems to be deeply integrated into a full-on conspiracy theory of Evil Librul Secularists against God — the persecuted Christian minority (?) against the ruling Powers That Be.
The end games seem to be in conflict, though. On the one hand, they want to legislate their version of morality into law everywhere and for countries to be theocracies. On the other hand, they also want the Second Coming to happen like really soon, which necessitates the rise of secularism and liberalism, the dismantling of local governments with the formation of a world government, the persecution of Christians (sigh, again), and, well, world war three against the icky brown people in the Middle East. And the gays. And the dirty peace-loving hippies.
April 9th, 2008 at 6:50 am
in may ways he tried to justify his not paying taxes but i think biblically we should “render unto ceasar” but on the evolution side thiers just too many unique things int he universe to say that in time it all fell into place… thiers 100″s of screws wheels and trinkits in a watch i dont believe if you take it apart and shake it uip for millions of years it will work like a rolex…
April 9th, 2008 at 7:25 am
Arguing from ignorance.
The problem with this sort of probability argument is that it is assuming that there were other potential outcomes based on the initial conditions of the universe. Without sidetracking into the concept of free will (ie, do we really have free will), it’s important to remember that there are things that seem very improbable, but are in fact real because it’s the only possible outcome based on all the inputs.
If you drop a feather from 20 feet, you don’t know where it will land because air currents will move it around during its decent. Wherever it lands is a real spot (duh). But if you were to predict the outcome before hand, you wouldn’t be able to. This is your argument about the universe, Sccsunshine. The position where the feather landed seems entirely too imporbable! But it will, in fact, land on that spot based on the flow of air in the room at the time it was dropped, and what orientation it was facing, etc. Given identical initial conditions, you will get identical outcomes. The problem is getting identical initial conditions. You are assuming that due to how the universe looks (with all its cogs and wheels), it was impossible to get that way without a divine hand. I am saying it isn’t. It’s just the natural (and possibly only) result based on the initial conditions. It’s extremely complex and difficult to predict, but it doesn’t violate any known laws of the universe to become the way it did.
Of course my analogy breaks down in the quantum world, but you get my drift.
April 9th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Evolution violates all laws of gravity, if the gravitational force line was 1 in to the left or right, then we would all be crushed or float into space. The universe is just too perfect. There is no way that the universe formed by a spinning ball of dust(big bang).
Where did all of the elements, atoms ,electrons, etc, come from?
Did they just all of sudden evolve?
When you paint a picture do you just squirt the colors on and watch the painting evolve?
No, every picture must have a creature?
April 9th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
I’m trying to figure out if wild thing is the most ignorant fundie to troll this site yet, or just a brilliantly accurate parody of a fundie troll.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Parrotlover said:
Wild Thing said:
Obviously, Wild Thing is that creature.
He’s actually quoting from an incredibly bad creationist video I saw once. It may have even been by Kent Hovind.
What I want to know is how this thread suddenly became popular. Somebody must have posted the link in a forum somewhere. My incoming link data isn’t showing it, though.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
You know the first time around I missed “creature” completely and read it as “creator” (which is probably what wild thing was trying to type, but with fundies, who knows).
The part that made me do a double-take was “Evolution violates all laws of gravity.”
WHA–?!
April 11th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
There is no scientific evidence for evolution. In fact some parts of evolution have been proven wrong 100 years ago. It’s easy for you guys to sit here and call me a ‘fundie’ or whatever, when you have no proof that we formed from a rock. The Bible is 100% accurate.
Not one single verse in the Bible has been proven wrong.
All of the signs are here, Jesus is coming soon, it’s time for you guys to repent because wherever you go(heaven or hell) you’ll be there for a very, very, very, very long time.
April 11th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Wild Thing:
I must have missed it. What was the experiment or study that proved evolution was wrong 100 years ago? Since you are so sure of that, it must be very easy to provide us with a reference.
April 11th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Well i learned about it from a debate. It was between Kent Hovind and some evolutionist. Kent Hovind totally schooled this dude! He had no answer for all of the scientific evidence supporting creation. If you want, I will watch the debate again so I can wright down the evidence because it was so long ago, i really dont remember.
Seriously man, the time is coming. The rapture is near. Jesus is coming!
April 11th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Wild Thing:
Like I said, I’d never heard that. Any information you can provide me would be greatly appreciated.
April 17th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Ron Britton:
If evolution is true than one day a elephant decided to go for a swim and after survivng in the water for ‘millions of years’ he decided to get rid of the trunk, loose the feet, grow gills, loose the tusks, become a lot smaller, and turn into a wallrus.
Yep that totally happened. Then that Wallrus eventually evolved into you and me.
That is a bunch of crap!
Did you know that the government is still offering $125,000,000 to anyone who can actually prove one aspect of evolution true. Yep what we have in the textbooks hasn’t even been proven right yet.
You have been brainwashed Ron
April 17th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Really, wildthing. What a ‘bunch of crap’ you’re tossing there. You know NOTHING about evolution do you? Obviously not! Where the heck did you come up with the garbage you just wrote? How stupid can you get? Evolution just doesn’t happen the way you wrote. If you are going to challenge these things, then at least understand what you are challenging!! It sounds more like YOU are the one brainwashed, NOT Ron.
BTW, I would really like to see where the government is offering that $125,000,000. I couldn’t find it anywhere on the internet. How about some info on THAT while you are off providing the info Ron has already requested????? hmmmm??? I suspect that THAT is a bunch of crap like the rest of the stuff you just wrote!!!
April 17th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Wild Thing has officially announced to the world that he is a moron.
He had previously claimed that evolution had “been proven wrong 100 years ago.” When asked to back up this claim, he provided no evidence.
He claimed that he learned the above piece of information from Kent Hovind, as if that somehow made the claim credible. In fact, Wild Thing promised to watch the video again and “wright” down the evidence. He did not do this, because there is no evidence.
Wild Thing claims that the government is offering $125,000,000 to prove evolution. Does he really think we are all so stupid that we’ll believe such an outlandish claim, solely because he says so? That technique only works on the followers of Kent Hovind.
Now he claims that the process of evolution works by animals deciding to become other animals and then just pulling off the old body parts. This is the level of education people get from Kent Hovind.
American schools teach almost nothing about evolution, thanks to pressure from fundies. That allows cretins like Kent Hovind to poison the minds of people—even very tiny minds, such as Wild Thing’s—with rubbish. This is why American schools are at the bottom of every international measure of academic quality. Kent Hovind is in jail for the wrong reason. He should be there for murdering American education.
April 17th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
And Wildthing- Try to differ yourselves from the other occasional retards we get here by not trying to end up with a spelling or grammatical error every post.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:16 am
Wildthing is a mighty and brave slayer of strawmen.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Ron – Although I agree with most of what you said about the American school system, I believe that the problems go much deeper than simply pressure from fundies. The fact that schools are wildly underfunded is an even bigger problem than fundies themselves, in my opinion. But your point is well-taken and, obviously, the fundie threat to the teaching of evolution is certainly a very harmful thing to education. And really, the underfunding is largely the result of politically conservative policy decisions, and we all know that Republicans are in bed with the fundies, so they are closely related.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:04 am
Oh come on! Wild Things has to be joking! Nobody can be that ignorant.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
[Deleted by admin for violation of comment policy.]
April 19th, 2008 at 12:29 am
Thank you for that wildthing! I’m going to submit your little piece of insight on how evolution works to Fundies Say the Darndest Things! I’ll later post a link to it for you so you can see all the ridiculing going on at your own expense. Oh by the way, walruses don’t have gills you fucking window licker!
April 19th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Pre-empting Hooton, you can find Wildthing’s comment and the humor that followed over at
http://fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?q=37959
April 21st, 2008 at 10:07 am
LOL I never even noticed the “grow gills” part until you pointed it out, Horton. Good times… good times…
April 22nd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
I did some research (you know, that thing creationists are incapable of). I wanted to see exactly what Kent Hovind might have been saying that got Wild Thing so confused. Over on YouTube is a 15-part series where Hovind debates some biologist named Ben Waggoner. I don’t recommend watching it. I only watched the first two segments. From what I saw, Waggoner did a poor job of it. Neither guy is a very interesting speaker, so it’s hard to sit through. I did find a couple of points worth mentioning.
Wild Thing’s claim that evolution was disproved over a hundred years ago is probably in reference to a claim made by Hovind in part 2 of the debate. Hovind claims that Haeckel faked his data to make it look like human embryos have gill slits. This is the thing that was allegedly proven, not that all or even most of evolution was bogus. TalkOrigins has a bit more here and here.
Here are a couple of PowerPoint slides Hovind uses in the debate. The first one demonstrates something that I mentioned in another post:
Fundies think that the reason people choose to believe science instead of the Bible is because they want to live a hedonistic, “materialistic”, and self-centered life. If they believe in evolution, that makes God go away, and they won’t have to answer to him after they die. It’s illogical, but what do you expect?
The second slide is typical of the statements Hovind was making throughout the debate:
He kept repeating that all so-called evidence for evolution has been proven wrong. He must think that if he repeats it often enough and with enough conviction, people will believe it.
Well, Hovind got his conviction all right!
He made one additional statement that I found disturbing. It wasn’t clear when this debate took place, but it couldn’t have been any later than 2006 (he was sentenced in January of 2007). He said:
Yes, that Jim Bob Duggar. Now do you get why I criticize those people?
Anyway, Hovind’s claim is that all evidence for evolution is fraudulent, so no biology books that teach evolution could be purchased if that bill passed. I don’t know if the other two stooges are continuing to push this bill every year, now that Moe is in the slammer.
April 24th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Ron Britton: Actually I have never seen that debate. Let me show you why the universe did not come from a ‘ big bang.’
You believe that one day all the matter and energy in the universe packed into a tiny little dot. Then this spinning dot of dirt exploded and out came our universe. Now scientists say that the big bang prodoced hydrogen and helium. So how did the other 105 elements get here?
Do you expect me to believe that uranium evolved from hydrogen?
The first law of thermodynamics states that “Matter cannot be created or destroyed”
But you believe that from a state of nothingness the universe began in a gigantic explosion.
So we all came from a dot and the dot came from nothing
The conservation of Angular Momentum states that if a spinning object spinning clockwise breaks apart than the pieces that broke off will continue to spin clockwise.
If the universe began as a spinning dot than why do Uranus and Neptune spin backwards from the other 6 planets?
Why do 8 out of 91 moons spin backwards?
Why do Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune have moons orbiting in both directions?
Why is the Sun 98% hydrogen and helium and Earth, Mercury, Venus, and Mars contain less than 1% of Helium and Hydrogen?
April 24th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
continued from previous message.
Why are the 8 planets so different from eachother if everything came from the same little dot?
The second law of thermodynamics states that everything tends toward disorder.
Nothing gets better by itself. The law states that “All we have to do is nothing, and everything deteriorates, collapses, breaks down, wears out, all by itself.
Evolution clearly violates this law!!!
Don’t worry Ron thats not even half of my evidence
April 25th, 2008 at 8:05 am
Supernovae
In a sense, yes. But not “evolved” as in biological evolution. However, matter previously composed of hydrogen eventually did fuse over the course of a few or many supernovae into heavier elements, such as uranium. So using “evolve” in the sense of “changes over time” then yes.
There is no evidence to support that the universe was ever in a state of nothingness. I don’t know of any scientist speculating that the singularity from which the universe probably began was “poofed” out of nothingness. The universe may have always been a “tiny dot” until the big bang, may have come from another universe, from a collision of universes, from a cycle of big bangs and big crunches, etc…etc… Nobody knows for sure. You can believe G-Daddy poofed it into existence. It doesn’t matter. Scientists do not claim to know the answer at this time. It is still being investigated. You are strawmanning here.
You are assuming (1) that any part of our solar system “spins” the same way as the singularity (which is strange because all dimensions were compressed into the singularity, so there was no 3-space to spin in like the orbits and rotations of planets), (2) that no particle at any time ran into any other particle, modifying the course of particles, (3) no force was interacting with any particle to influence its direction/spin, and (4) that space itself was not incredibly warped in the infant universe, throwing things around in many peculiar directions. Your first arguments were better. This one is just flat out silly.
I’m not even sure what you are disputing here. If you are truly ignorant about why planetary and solar compositions are the way they are, read a book on the formation of the solar system.
The solar system formed billions of years after the origin of the universe. You are conflating unrelated issues. Again, read up on the formation of the galaxy and solar system before spouting off nonsense. Your ignorance on a subject does not make the subject any less true/relevant.
The earth is not a closed system. The earth receives energy (a lot) from the sun. If the sun disappeared, life would end. The “order” you perceive to be violating the second law would be gone in hours/days.
You are confusing evidence with ignorance. I see no evidence. I do, however, see a lot of ignorance. The sad thing is that I’m not even a scientist. I’m just a network engineer who is a political junkie and loves to watch educational teevee. I can’t imagine how badly you’d be torn apart by a real scientist in the fields you are disputing…
April 25th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Parrotluver: Do you have any evidence that the Earth came from a big bang? At least I have facts. You have contributed nothing to the conversation except for critism and insults. Like I asked Ron before: Explain to me how you think the universe and you and me got here.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Wildthing:
No. Parrotlover has contributed lots of facts, and he has provided links for you to find out more. You are the one who has contributed nothing. Please give us some facts for once. Stating that the planets revolve the wrong way and that is proof of God is hardly a fact. You must provide specific facts to support your claims, or your commenting privileges will be revoked.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
wildthing – Calling somebody “ignorant” is not an insult. Ignorance is a fixable condition. You can start ignorant and become knowledgable. Saying that you don’t know of any evidence of evolution (for example) is an ignorant statement, as there is a mountain of evidence and you just need to learn it. Saying you have contibuted “facts” when all you have done is ask simple questions while thinking you have poked holes in sound scientific theory (which I addressed in detail, I might add) is just stupid.
I can fix ignorance. I can’t fix stupid.
(P.S., “stupid” is an insult.)
April 28th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Ron Britton: I got the government offer wrong. It is $250,000 to anyone who can prove evolution right. Sorry about that.
[Remainder of post deleted by admin for violation of comment policy.]
April 28th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Wildthing:
I deleted the remainder of your comment, because despite repeated requests, you have not supplied any data to back up your assertions. As for your claim about the government offering $250K, since you have “corrected” this information, you obviously have the complete source and details of this offer. Please tell us where we can read the government’s offer in its entirety.
April 28th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Wildthing, evolution and the big bang are not the same thing. Why do you keep mixing the two together? Let me guess. You learned it from Hovind? It was Hovind who made the offer NOT the government. Plus he, just like you, tried to redefine evolution. This is why no one is taking up the offer. It is a bogus offer. I suggest you read more about it on the following site:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind.html
You are right about one thing “We should be learning about Science!!!!!!!!!” However, it appears that you are not following your own advice as it is obvious that you know NOTHING about science!!! Quit throwing garbage around, get an education and don’t come back until you do!
April 28th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
“Why is the Sun 98% hydrogen and helium and Earth, Mercury, Venus, and Mars contain less than 1% of Helium and Hydrogen?”—Wild thing
Actually that has to do with the Sun’s solar winds. The reason why the planets closest to the sun don’t have gas like Jupiter and Saturn is because they are too close to the Sun’s solar winds (Literally gets blown off) and their mass doesn’t generate a strong enough gravitational pull to hold lighter elements like helium down.
Ron: I believe he is talking about the Kent offer which is he has put up 250K reward (Not sure the exact amount) but he promised it under ridiculous conditions:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind.html
His requirements are as follows: * NOTE: When I use the word evolution, I am not referring to the minor variations found in all of the various life forms (microevolution). I am referring to the general theory of evolution which believes these five major events took place without God:
1. Time, space, and matter came into existence by themselves.
2. Planets and stars formed from space dust.
3. Matter created life by itself.
4. Early life-forms learned to reproduce themselves.
5. Major changes occurred between these diverse life forms (i.e., fish changed to amphibians, amphibians changed to reptiles, and reptiles changed to birds or mammals).
I’ll start with 1: What does this have to do with evolution at all? By the wiki definition, evolution does not explain this. Evolution is the theory outlined to explain life’s diversity.
2: This also has nothing to do with evolution
3: Once again…how is this evolution?
4: Wow, we actually got into biology! Anyway, you obviously doesn’t know shit about chemical compounds cause even a high school sophomore like me knows how basic chemistry links in with DNA and then…you know what, screw it…cause like the others it still doesn’t deal with evolution (I’ll save this bit for later ;P)
5: HOLY SHNIKES! What a genius we have here, folks! Whatever…the wikipedic entry can debunk this load of elephant shit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
Well that explains that argument…and every creationist I’ve talked to has tried to pull this shit…but really people…when 4 out of the 5 arguments doesn’t even have to do with evolution…well you can see that Kent Hovind is FAR from an expert you can trust and turn to for the what’s what on even the most basic science.
And no, we cannot disprove a God (yet) but can you prove it without having to reference back to your preferred dogmatic bedside paperweight? No. Not anymore than the Greeks can prove Apollo’s horses or the Aztecs can prove that the the sun rises only when it receives a blood sacrifice every dawn.
Now you may say “Well that’s SO ridiculous…of course it’s not true.”
WRONG! If you lived in that time period, without having access to the scientific information that we have now…you’d believe it. This is where SCIENCE comes in. We don’t pretend to know all the answers like Mr. Just another lying shit-licker rotting in jail likes to. That is the process…the scientific method listed here:
1. Define the question
2. Gather information and resources (observe)
3. Form hypothesis
4. Perform experiment and collect data
5. Analyze data
6. Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
7. Publish results
8. Retest (frequently done by other scientists)
How does religion follow any of that criteria? I’m sorry…but it can’t and it never will since faith is…well just that…faith! You can believe that you can jump over the cliff-side and land safely on the ground…doesn’t mean you will…but you do have every right to believe it…but you can’t call it science! All a scientist has to do is throw things over the end and collect the remains at the bottom to know that if you really jumped off, you’d die (or be in horrible agony and most likely internally bleeding)
Think, how far as science brought us in these past 50 years or so? Evolution is part of that. We would not have modern medicine if evolution was not a proven fact, a scientific theory.
And just because I love to use this quote: Inventions reached their limit long ago, and I see no hope for further development.
—Sextus Julius Frontinus, 100AD
Wild thing and other creationists: go retake your high school biology class…because obviously, don’t know shit about the scientific services that you take advantage of every day in the forms of medicine, vaccines, safety regulations, air quality, etc.
(Sorry this was kind of blown out of proportion…I’m REALLY ticked off today)
April 29th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Wildthing, I believe Kent Hovind made that offer.
April 29th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
How come you can delete what I say???
Ok i learned about that offer when I was watching the first video of Hovind’s creation seminar sieres. It’s called the Age of the Earth. It’s right in the beginning of the video.
You can find it on Youtube and google video.
That video changed my life.
You should watch it!!! It will change yours also.
April 29th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Wildthing:
He deletes what you say, because you are still not proving your arguments, nor citing a reliable source.
And here is how the turning point in your life gets picked apart:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNZCcTcOPV0
April 29th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Hovind’s offer is debunked here:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind.html
Wildthing, you might want to read that.
April 30th, 2008 at 6:11 am
Good rant, Sarah. You seem exceptionally knowledagble (and well written) for a high school sophomore. Keep it up! The wildthings and hovinds won’t be able to hold on influence the furture of America if you are an example of the braininess and maturity of American’s youth!
May 1st, 2008 at 9:08 am
There is no scientific proof for evolution. Most people do not realise that, and that is pretty sad. They just accept and believe that it’s true and founded because it is in the text books from where they got their ‘education’.
I’m agnostic but you can’t deny science supports the bible massively.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:48 am
Ron, I think you should nuke the troll, J. ugh.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:02 pm
HOW DARE YOU! just because you know for a fact that you are wrong dosnt mean that you can lock him away. and i belive what he says and so dose millions of other people(not just christians). just cuz you put him behind bars, it dosnt make a difference.
May 1st, 2008 at 4:40 pm
I hope Dr. Hovind doesn’t drop the soap whilst in the shower. He is liable to find out that Mankind hasn’t “evolved” too much since we evolved from the apes; or that the Christian God he worships has a peculiar sense of ironic humor.
But seriously, I would like to know what the Intelligent Design protaganists base their creation views on. If they care to try to shoot holes in natural selection/evolution/etc, that is one thing. What “science” (testable facts/hypothesis/laws) do they have to offer in its place?
A little light reading…
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=15-answers-to-creationist
May 1st, 2008 at 4:50 pm
“I got the government offer wrong. It is $250,000 to anyone who can prove evolution right. Sorry about that.” — wildthing
Uh… the problem with that offer is that no matter what kind of “proof” there is of natural selection/evolution to be offered up, it will never be “enough” proof, or there will be some arbitrary (according to Hovind, et. al) missing link that that is… missing.
It is a useless “bet” that has no possible way of being won. It is akin to me asking you to “prove” that Jesus Christ was the son of God. Why, I’ll wager $10 (an easy sum for me to lose) that you cannot…
May 1st, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Chels:
We DID NOT put the fucktard behind bars. He is there because of his own refusal to pay taxes. And now that he is behind bars, it still doesn’t make a difference because the rest of his like are out there teaching the same fuzzy science and producing people like you—people who see themselves as oppressed by the EVIL Liberal Science Conspiracy.
Is anyone else noticing the trend between the fundies that come to this site, bad grammar, bad spelling and generally stupid comments?
May 1st, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Daniel:
It isn’t just the fundies that come to this site. Look around the web. Most fundies are like that. They’re an incredibly stupid and uneducated group of people.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Ok…J…so in your opinion it’s wrong to look in textbooks (all of which are sourced for their information and must hold up to the state standards for education…which are apparently falling rapidly if you and all the rest of these fundies are any example) for the answers, but it’s a-ok to reference the BIBLE for your daily dose of science and logical whimsy? o.0
And Chels…if we did that, we would be violating the First Amendment by doing that. We may detest all the shit spewing from your mouths, but we let you say it because you have every right to.
But that will never make it science.
A simple example: I can point at a dog and call it a sub-species of cat…but that will not change the fact that it’s an entirely different species. Also, Hovind teaches the Christian version of ID so obviously, ONLY CHRISTIANS will be agreeing with him. I doubt any Muslims or Jews (even though they technically are all Abrahamic sects) would say that Hovind’s ID was the one and only. NOTE: There are over 80000 religions worldwide…let’s take a break from biology and move to math; what is the probability of your religion being the right one?
Wait for it…
Ok…these latest comments to this board have got me thinking (and ranting once again…sorry I’ve been a bit mean but I’m stressed with about 4 final projects and probably around three final tests all within the next two weeks T-T Forgive me if I seem a little too snappish) Back to my point:
I love how these people say that evolution (Which is backed by the scientific method and peer reviewed results) is just a belief or false
—but then agree that the theory of gravity (which is backed by the same thing) is just all fine and dandy. Sorry, you can pick and choose with your religion and your Bible, but not science, folks. We be following the evidence. (Although personally I only consider a true believer to be one who has read the original GREEK version of the Bible and follows all of its teachings, etc.…because otherwise, why even bother believing if you are just going to take out the parts you don’t like?) But of course that’s because gravity doesn’t offend their pathetically small view of the world and the universe around us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKNFDfZ2Nkg
And if you think that evolution is false (as they so nicely put it) then why don’t you stop taking advantage of all its by-products? Better throw out all those meds and no more vaccines for when something like the flu mutates and hits you. Have fun getting reacquainted with Mr. Puke Pot!
Seriously…no one is MAKING you believe that or take those meds (Yes, there are other examples, but this one tends to be one of the most useful)…there’s only a mountain of peer-reviewed tests, hundreds of tests and connections made through other biological scientific development…nope…that’s all we have.
But then again I guess you have faith…and you are completely entitled to your beliefs.
But that still doesn’t make the dog a cat.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:06 pm
BTW: Thanks Parrot! Writing is a huge passion of mine (More so than science, but I will always defend its integrity and accuracy at every chance given) and currently I am working on my first multi-chapter story with three of my friends beta-editing it for my school’s literary magazine. As for the fundies, expect quite a few more rants too depending on how much feedback I get from some of my comments. There are usually one or two that try to debate with me…but most likely, as with all the others on dA, they will just eventually ’stop’ commenting. (But of course you also get the kind that never shut up and simply try to poke at your weaker arguments to distract you from your own main points that you laid out at the beginning…it’s more annoying than pathetic)
I might also have to put up a rant on their grammar if this keeps up…my inner Grammar-Nazi is calling out for justice!
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:22 am
Personally, Sarah, I think they should only use the original manuscripts written by Moses (et al) and apostles themselves, and nothing else because everything else is tampered by humans and no longer divine. What’s that, you say? No such document exists, you say? The earliest of any of those documents is HUNDREDS of years out from when the events took place, you say?
Well buggar for them.
May 3rd, 2008 at 2:38 pm
XD Seriously…but then again, you forgot one VAIR important factor: they have faith!
May 10th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
i am a christian, and proud of it. it disapoints me to see this guy charged on tax evasion and what a poor example he shows. now i am not saying i agree with all his teaching because he clearly made a big mistake some where alond the line. but i do beleive the bible and all of it. so what do you beleive happens when you die? is that it, your lifes over? i have a different view, and even if you dont agree you have no idea how much easier it is living lfe when you beleive there is something on the other end. it makes me want to make a difference and it gives me something to live for, it puts joy in my life. and please dont just distroy my beleifes im not here to to that to yours, just keep an open mind
May 10th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Anna, your message is kind, but our way of seeing things forces us to think that “Hey, I’ve only got one shot at living…I should make the most of it! I should try to be the best I can be cause I’ll never get another try.”
Everyone has a different view on things, but that doesn’t mean we can all collectively agree to certain aspects (Such as with the political and judicial systems) or to disagree.
It’s ok to believe whatever you want; no one here on this site is going to tell you that it’s wrong to be a Christian…but to declare the Bible or God or anything religion-based as science is an entirely different matter. If it was, we would be able to test it with the scientific method (which we can’t and never will be able to).
Now take one of my friends on dA ‘Spleef’ she is an atheist, but she always believes in cosmic energy and karma. However, she has said many times in her arguments with fundies that her belief “is her own” and that it “isn’t scientific”.
And it isn’t, but it’s her belief and she is free to that belief. You are free to yours too, and the reason we are mad at people like Hovind and other fundies is because they believe that their belief is the one and ONLY belief. They feel that Christianity is the only way and if you don’t follow it, then you are just a horrible person by default. Then they try to claim that those beliefs are science and truth, which they are not. This pisses us off because we want the right to atheism and we want science to well…stay scientific.
May 19th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Anna,
Faith and reality are two different paradigms. I try to live my life virtuously, and in that regard… because of and in spite of my faith.
We do ourselves better by living a virtuous life, not by shoving our notion of religious fervor/faith down someone’s throat.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:37 am
you must be stupid to believe in evolution.
June 18th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Smokes: We do no ‘believe’ in Evolution. It is not a religion, but a scientific theory. There is a reason that it has stood up to a hundred years of questioning and prodding. There are other theories that have gone through the same testing but no one complains about them because they don’t contradict their religion (Germ Theory, Atomic Theory, Theory of Gravity, Theory of Relativity, etc)
Just because your religious ideals don’t fit the scientific method doesn’t prove that the method is wrong. If it was wrong, you would not have your computer, nor modern medicine, nor pretty much ANY scientific advancements that we do have today.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Sarah – Actually…
Germ Theory contradicted the wildly held belief that illness was either a demon (aka evil spirit), curse, divine punishment from God, etc…
The Theory of Gravity (and its precursor discoveries, Galileo and Kepler’s motion of the planets) contradicted the wildly held religious belief that the Earth was the center of the universe surrounded by giant spheres containing the heavens (stars, sun, moon, etc.) instead of an object in motion around the Sun due to gravitation and momentum.
The Theory of Relativity helped contradict the religious assumptions about the origins and age of the universe and planets.
As for Atomic Theory, maybe somebody can help me out here…
June 18th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Well, back in the 1st century BC, Lucretius Carus wrote a book called De Rerum Natura (“On the Nature of Things”). This book was about atomic theory and its implications for religion, human life, the existence of the soul, and death. It was actively suppressed by christian writers because it contradicted the christian concept of immortal soul. The idea being that if all things were composed of atoms, then souls were made of atoms. If that were true, then the soul would perish on death which meant that there was no afterlife. The whole atomic theory concept was pretty much absent in Europe until the middle ages.
June 19th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Parrot: ^^; My bad then…
August 12th, 2008 at 10:28 am
[Deleted by admin for violation of comment policy.]
February 16th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Alright first off I just came on here and I noticed alot of immature bickering between christians–which distresses me–and you “athiests”. Seriously, first off I will adress my fellow christain brothers and sisters and congratulate them for being brave enough to defend their faith against the fundamental athiests here but there comes a time when Jesus’s command to “shake the dust off your feet and leave” come into play because those athiests just want to argue and debate. They are not interested in finding out truth so you are just wasting your time with them. Their hearts are hardened so the only thing you can do is pray that GOD will use the seeds you have planted and make them grow later and draw the to HIMSELF. Jesus himself said no man can come to The Father unless the father draws him to himself. Now to athiests you people are hypocritical because you refer to us as “fundies” but fail to realize that you are all religious “fundies” yourself. You have to believe that there is no god there is no way for you to just know that—so you have more faith than we do. Also Kent hovind’s challenge that wild thing metioned was not a “trick” like ya’ll claim, he wanted some solid proof that we evolved from apes or a rock. Evolutionists have tried to come up with proof but they were all idiotic. Evolution is not science. We have never observed any kind of species produce anything other than its own kind(For example: Dogs have and always will produce dogs! We have never seen a dog produce a non dog—i will even admit that the dog wolf and coyote all have a common anscestor! But every little third grader knows they are the same kind of animal!)Also Anna Do not listen to what that guy is saying because The Bible has scientific facts that it knew centuries before modern “scientists discovered” them. Anna check out http://www.101scientificfactsandforeknowledge.com ! That site will blow your mind. It makes sense because GOD created science so he would know more than these so called “athiests”. Also every and all “facts” for evolution has been proven worng over time—like the piltdown man, lucy, nebraska man, the geologic column, and many more to name a few. Another observation i noticed bout this site is it is VERY biased. I mean the Wild thing gave TONS of hard evidence and the so-called “athiests” just insulted him and never once gave evidence or a reliable source and they deleted his comments for “lack of evidence”! What is this?! So wild thing that goes to show maybe you should insult them back instead of giving evidence and reliable sources and maybe they will keep your comments too. lol. I’m being facetious now obviously. Also, It does matter what you believe because it you will be dead for alot longer than you are alive in your mortal bodies. Where you gonna go heaven or hell? God cannot let us in his presence because we are all sinful—have you lied before? well you are a liar. Have you stolen before? well that makes you a theif. Have you committed adultery before? Jesus said if you even look at woman to lust after her you just committed adultery with her in your heart. Must I go on? James said that if you keep the whole law but break just one you might as well have broken all of them cuz your guilty. We are ALL guilty for breaking GOD’s law and the book of Romans says the wages of sin is death. We ALL deserve to DIE! So GOD was in a dilemma–He cant let sin be in his presence because He is totally just and holy and we are sinful to our core! He also is LOVE so he did the unthinkable and came down as Jesus and took OUR punishment upon Himself that whoever puts their trust in Jesus will be saved! Our slate has been wiped clean! He has cast out sins as far as the east is from the west! Repent now and turn to Jesus!
One more note then I have to go see my girl I have to bring up you athiests all parrot eachother about Dr. Kent hovind calling him an “unreliable source” because he is in prison….well that just proves he made a mistake but its not only arragant but also very STUPID to say that all of us sudden his theories are not valid because he is in jail. No His theories are still valid just like you wanna believe that we all came from apes “4.5 billon of years ago”. I aint sayin your belief is not valid—its illogical but you have a right tp believe it. Also you have failed to notice how evolution is one of the most evil doctines out there. It feuls racism, communism, nazism, etc.. Watch expelled for the one on nazism. Hitler based the holocaust off of the religion in evolution! The columbine shooters did it the name of evolution. They kill two girls simply for believing in GOD. They killed a black guy simply for being black. Hitler hated black people which because of that i hate him! I have a high respect for the african american people and my own people the asians. They did the shooting on hitlers bday on purpose.
February 16th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
hey I am open to any kind of debate you have for me so if you want try and debate your religion of evolution with me then email me at dsarchet2@gmail.com
I know i am may have ruffled the “atheists” feathers a little bit but they must know that they are diluted if they wanna believe they came from a rock “millions and millions of years ago”!!! lol sound like star wars(a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away…..—same concept! lol) Alright peace out i gotta see my girl now. Please email me if your open to an honest debate but if i feel you just wanna argue then i will ignore you! I dont have time to waste on the folly of arguements.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Wow! That is some serious stupid. This guy is priceless, as he exhibits all the classic attributes of a fundie. There is the atrocious spelling and grammar which we’ve come to know so well, the endless running paragraph, the straw man arguments that have been debunked countless times before, the comparisons between atheism and evolution and Hitler, and the bleating about being insulted by atheists. He’s got it all! That is assuming, of course, he is genuine. With Poe, you never know.
In some cases the best argument one can make against creationist claims is to simply let them speak for themselves. What is really laughable is that they believe their disjointed ramblings have any chance of being convincing and compelling arguments that we atheists have somehow missed over the years. Come on, Dave, at least try something new.
Oh, and since you’re on your way to see your girl, I do hope you’ll remember that Jesus is watching your every move and knows your every carnal, craven, dirty, sinful, lustful thought, so don’t look at those boobies, or even think about them, or you’ll make him cry. You don’t want to make Jesus Christ cry, do you Dave?
February 16th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Brian, I think this one goes on for far too long to be an example of Poe’s Law. I think an average thinking Joe would have tired after 2 paragraphs of nonsense. I actually couldn’t get past the 4th or 5th sentence. Fundie rants are always the same rambling crap spewed in perhaps a slightly different gramatically incorrect way from the last ramble of crap.
LMAO @ making JC cry!
February 17th, 2009 at 6:29 am
And therein lies the problem. No biologist (or, heck, geologist) claims we evolved from rocks. Period. Exclamation point. Dollar Sign. Other Punctuation. End of line.
February 17th, 2009 at 6:35 am
No. But you gave us all a really much needed laugh.
February 17th, 2009 at 6:38 am
Is there a negative or positive correlation between Poe and Godwin? He got all the way to Godwin in his first post. Granted, his post was the equivelent of a few dead trees, but never-the-less, it was in his first post.
February 17th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I’m just sitting here enjoying being diluted…
February 17th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
PL,
Godwin? I must confess my ignorance to that reference. What is it?
February 17th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Godwin’s Law
February 18th, 2009 at 3:23 am
Thank you, Ron. Now I know, and as GI Joe used to say, “Knowing is half the battle”.
February 18th, 2009 at 8:07 am
Did he manage to hit every cliche in the book there?
Evolution is a lie .. check
Evolution is a religion .. check
Humans evolved from rocks … check
Microevolution happens, macroevolution doesn’t .. check
The Bible is scientific .. check (laughable fundie website as evidence just for lolz)
Throw in Pascal’s wager .. check
Oh and don’t forget Atheism = Evolution = Nazism/Communism/Racism .. check
It would be funny if it didn’t look like he might be passing on his genes at some point.
February 20th, 2009 at 6:12 am
Luckily, his ignorance is more a product of culture than genetics. The scarier thing is he may be raising kids, not donating his genes! No need to further muddy the evolutionary waters, as it were, to anybody reading this thread who doesn’t know that.
March 31st, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Hey Brian lets see what kind of comebacks you have that don’t have to do with spelling and grammar mistakes. Dave put forth a great message about evolution and creation and you comment on his spelling???? wtf this ain’t no college research paper. lets see wat u gotz 2 offer in a evolution vs creation debate.
March 31st, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Evolution is the greatest hoax in the history of man kind and is responsible for the brain washing of billions of kids world wide. It is scientifically impossible and cannot be observed, researched, or studied.
Lets look at the following fairy tale: A woman kissed the frog and the frog turned into a prince. ok now your thinking yea right that can’t happen!!!!!
But wait there is a new twist!!!!!!!
the woman kisses the frog but then goes on vacation for a billion years and comes back and the frog has turned into a prince!!!!!
Look what billions of years will do for you!!!!!!!!!
lol its the same fairy tale. And they call that science.
March 31st, 2009 at 6:02 pm
A few comments ago I said this:
In some cases the best argument one can make against creationist claims is to simply let them speak for themselves.
Then JC is Real said this:
I rest my case.
April 1st, 2009 at 3:29 am
JC is a typical fundie idiot but in case some more reasonable people are reading here are a few links to evidence for evolution:
http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.html
this one is a particular gem as it not only presents the evidence for evolution it also analyses the creationist ‘alternative’ and shows just why creation science isn’t scientific.
http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=6024
April 1st, 2009 at 5:56 am
I agree with Brian. Thread Officially Over. Brian wins the internets.
April 1st, 2009 at 7:32 am
freddies_dead:
Thanks for those great links. I’m going to add them to my evolution links. That last one lets you download the short ebook for free. It’s a good high-level overview of evolution.
April 1st, 2009 at 10:18 am
One common mistake is that people think Evolution has some sort of design to it by itself. That creatures “want” to evolve leading to more and more complex organisms.
This can’t happen otherwise viruses would not exist because they are 100% parasitic and very simply put together (protein coat and DNA) it would have to go backward at some point. Am I going to say I believe everything evolution has to offer, not at all, the point of science is to prove what you find, if it doesn’t work out then move on. That happens all the time so you move to your next theory.
It requires faith to believe it at points, as well as Christianity, lots of things are unexplainable, when we try to prove the unexplainable we come short of hard facts and make hypothesis based on observation. Theory’s are constantly being shot down and stood up, just wait it out. Almost everything is not set in stone.
April 1st, 2009 at 3:25 pm
I’m still waiting for someone to comment on my little fairy tale.
o ya and Brian why dont u grow a pair and debate me on evolution and creation instead ov da way i talkkk
April 1st, 2009 at 6:26 pm
I’ll comment on your Fairy Tale, Frogs didn’t eventually become Humans. Does that make you happy?? Its much more complex than that. Just like I can tell you a beaver didn’t become a Giraffe, completely diverse. The Arguement of evolution is a very basic common ancestor that branches out into other Kingdoms, Phyla, Genia, etc.
Something formed into eventually what we got to be a frog, and same thing for a human. Everything is not a prelude to what we have already walking on earth today. Just a very common ancestor, not a time line of increasing complexity. That is Biological Evolution.
Btw, that doesn’t mean I completely agree with it totally, it has holes in it. Anything based on unknown data will.
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:45 am
JC,
I’ll humor you with a response only because I’m feeling particularly evil this morning. I am also going to assume that you are a genuine fundie, which would easily explain your uninformed, bellicose rambling. I will also refrain from using Internet shorthand (“wat u gotz 2 offer”, for example), so I trust that the English language is something that you at least have a passing familiarity with. If not, perhaps a grown-up can translate this for you.
I have no intention of wasting my time trying to convince you of that which ought to be as obvious as the Bible stuck up your ass. Despite your paranoid denials, all of biology is predicated on the notion of Darwinian evolution, and without it nothing makes any sense. If you are too obstinate to perceive reality, that’s not my problem, it’s yours.
If you chose to do so, you could read any of the hundreds of articles on this site, or on dozens of other sites, to gain the most cursory understanding of evolution, but you’re not the least bit interested in doing so, are you? Of course not. That would contradict your precious fucking Bible, would it not? You’d be taking the bait from Ol’ Scratch himself, wouldn’t you?
Which is why I have no intention of debating the matter of evolution itself with you. I can think of far better ways to waste my time. Really, no matter what I or anyone else argues, your mind is closed. You are terrified of having your goddamned faith challenged in a meaningful way, and posting on a blog is how you deal with it. As for myself, I admit that it is extraordinarily unlikely, if not outright impossible that you could offer information that might cause me to re-examine my stance on either evolution or religion in general. Before you cry “Aha!”, though, realize that it is not because I am closed-minded, but rather it’s due to the fact that fundies like yourself never have anything interesting to say that I and other informed people have not already heard.
I am not in any way a scientist, but the underlying principles of free inquiry, honest debate, critical thinking and peer review which form the foundation of science are not lost on me as apparently they are on you. Similarly, the fundamental ideas of evolution are simple, elegant, and most importantly, explain a hell of a lot more than any fairy tale does. They are easily comprehended by anyone possessing the intellectual flexibility to do so. This counts you out, I’m afraid.
So continue having your fun. I honestly do not know what you hope to accomplish. You are certainly not going to win anyone here over to Jesus, if that’s what you’re after. Neither are you going to force a re-evaluation of evolution by any of us when our mental picture of you includes the ballcap on sideways, the plethora of gold chains around your neck (don’t forget the cross!) and the baggy jeans hanging halfway down your ass when your write:
That’s just not how I roll, dawg.
June 1st, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Seriously, evolution is the most idiotic theory ever. the whole theory doesn’t make any sense. those people who keep defending this theory, how do they know the age of the earth? and how do they know that all creatures have a common ancestor ? there are NO scientific evidences that prove that evolution happened or still happening! I don’t really care about what people believe in but evolution is not science . if you don’t want to believe in religion and you want to be really scientific then go find another explaination of the origins of life because evolution doesn’t make any sense and doesn’t really explain anything it is not different from any other religion.
June 1st, 2009 at 1:46 pm
June 1st, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Can I haz scientific evidences?
June 11th, 2009 at 7:41 am
You are quite correct Sunshine (and JC and others). Evolution is another one of those ideas that we in the leadership of the New World Order are using to destroy your pitiful Christian society. It does not need to make any sense. We just require your obedience and such theories facilitate this. It is the same thing with our other inventions such as Communism, Fascism, Homosexuality, Islam and of course LOGIC. Despite the fact that some of you (such as Kent Hovind) have spotted our plan, they will all be dealt with in good time (like Hovind). It will not be long now before the takeover is complete and your voice of dissension will be silenced forever. Enjoy it while it lasts. Our victory is inevitable (and a lot of fun!).
October 26th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
I happen to believe the same theory that Kent is teaching, and his theories are not crap.
All I have to say about this is, if you are reading the quotes on this website, you are not being told the whole story. Many of you are taking these quotes way out of the context Kent intended.
And if you would actually listen to Kent’s whole sermon,
and actually listen to what he is saying,
with an open mind,
with an open mind,
with an open mind,
you would understand that.
October 26th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
A video for Chelsea on open-mindedness.
October 26th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
K-Fed:
Thanks for reminding me about that great video. I wish we could get more people to watch it.
October 26th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
Someone had better nudge Chelsea’s needle. She’s skipping.
Chelsea, Kent’s “theory” (and for the record, “Goddidit” isn’t a theory) is garbage. If you’d read some material about evolution that isn’t recommended by your pastor, you’d understand that.
More importantly – do Mom and Dad know you’re online talking to atheists when you’re supposed to be doing your homework?
October 27th, 2009 at 8:19 am
Why is she repeating “with an open mind” over and over again? Is that some sort of mantra used by Hovindites to convince themselves that they are actually the real open minded ones and the rest of the universe is not?
October 28th, 2009 at 7:34 am
If Kent’s theories are not crap, please expand upon it and give us evidence as to why it is not crap Chelsea.
Btw great video!
November 1st, 2009 at 2:19 pm
It doesn’t matter what an evolutionist or an athiest argues. One day we will truely know the truth Sirs. Every knee shall bow and toungue confess, that Jesus Is Lord. I don’t preach the Bible and creation, for you, I do it so the next generation will believe the Truth. (John 14:6)God has already given you over to a reprobate mind, so that you won’t believe. Some where deep inside you know the truth, and there will be no excuss before God on your jundgement day. Im not looking to convert you, Im looking to convert someone who who will listen to commen sense, logic, truth. Tell me dumb dumb did someone disign my watch? Yes someone did. Invicta made my particular watch, they created and designed it. Now tell me dumb dumb how stupid would it be if I said my watch evolved? Thats about the logic of evolution. Someone created and designed YOU. Well ive got to go I think I see a big bang happening across the street…..(where’s my camara?)
November 1st, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Either that, or someone was dangling something shiny.
You just can’t make this shit up.
Ron, for some reason, I feel like “disigning” something.
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:16 am
I don’t speak stupid that well, so please forgive me if I am not reading this correctly. But I have to ask, did this drive-by poster just say that God made us unbelievers and he is going to smite us for, well, unbelieving?
What a fucking asshole!
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:36 am
God also hardened Pharaoh’s mind against Moses, because he wanted to wipe out the entire Egyptian army.
November 2nd, 2009 at 10:12 am
Now, my moron is a little rusty, but I believe the “logic” goes something like this: We’re inherently depraved, and God has allowed us to wallow in that state, either b/c we’ve chosen to (Arminianism) or simply b/c he’s a dick (Calvinism). Either way – yes, he’s going to smite us for it.
Yes, that one is spot on.
So, PL – you still think taking the vote away from them is a bad idea?
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:45 pm
It’s okay Jeff, I don’t think this one can find the voteing bewth.
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:05 pm
*gritting teeth*
I hear you, I do. I just can’t “go there.” Call me naive, but I believe that this sort of stupid gets lost as noise in the overall vote, so long as two fundamental conditions are met (which explains the eight years previous to now):
1. The public is not being lied to by the institutions they trust to provide them unbiased information (or near as possible). Clearly the media is failing that role for the most part.
2. The public is not politically apathetic (see: Novemeber, 2000).
November 2nd, 2009 at 4:53 pm
K-Fed: I LOVE that clip. All of it is good stuff, but for some reason I’m especially amused by the dude with hypno-eyes.
All: I’m hoping you lot can help me out with something. There is an argument (possibly a pair or trio of arguments) I’ve seen used more than once, and as far as I can tell it’s fallacious. My problem is that I’m biased; I think it’s fallacious, and I don’t want to argue against straw, so I’m requesting that one or more of you pick apart my rebuttal.
The argument(s) is(are?) FOR evolution, which is why I think you might know some good support for it. It runs something like this: “All of biology is predicated on the notion of Darwinian evolution”. Occasionally it is expressed along these lines: “We would not have modern medicine if evolution was not a proven fact, a scientific theory.” That latter is often accompanied by a side order of “So stop using modern medicine if you really believe in ID, cretin!”
Now, a little background before we start ([legitimate] credentials and full disclosure; lacked by 9 out of 10 internet theists!). I’m an alt-route High School Biology teacher in NJ
http://tinyurl.com/yc5hh2e
I’m a theist, Christian by flavor. I think fundamentalism is the greatest danger of our age. I find evolution to be the most accurate explanation of the observed data. I think ID is a con job by folks who would wind up in prison if karma functioned as it ought.
OK, now you know I am, who I’m not, and that I know how to link to references. My problems with the arguments listed above follow in reverse order.
First, “So stop using modern medicine if you really believe in ID, cretin!” is a variety of appeal to force
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_logical_fallacies
Not everyone uses that, so I’ll not spend much time on it, but it does get me a bit peeved when I see it.
Second, “We would not have modern medicine if evolution was not a proven fact, a scientific theory.” Now, this could be an appeal to consequences or an argument along the line of “If modern medicine exists, evolution must be true”. My problem with that is that it’s a non sequitur. Modern medicine is based on the scientific method. Evolution is also based on the scientific method. To the best of my knowledge, very little medical research makes use of the theory of evolution. Medical science makes quite a bit of use of the sciences that support evolution (biochemistry, zoology, molecular biology), but it doesn’t directly DRAW from it, if you see my distinction.
Third, “All of biology is predicated on the notion of Darwinian evolution”. Um. That’s a pretty big (unsupported, afaik) assertion. How do I say this. Wait. “No.” Biology is based on the application of the scientific method to the study of life. All of biology is predicated on the scientific method, but the same could be said of any modern science. There are plenty of areas of Biology (Biochemistry, Molecular Genetics, Genetics, Microbiology, the list is pretty long) that aren’t predicated on Evolution.
However, I think I see where the problem lies. Quite a few folks I’ve worked with (including some biologists) conflate Biology and Taxonomy, and/or attempt to subordinate the latter to the former. All of modern Taxonomy IS based on the theory of Evolution. However, not all of Biology is based on Taxonomy.
Really, it would be fairly accurate to say “All of Biology supports the notion of evolution.” The other way round? I just don’t see it.
What am I missing? Like I said earlier, I’m looking for illumination, not a fight. I’m also not disagreeing with the conclusion (evolution) just with that particular (set of) argument(s) for it.
PS – sorry for the leading caps. I’ve gotten in the habit of capitalizing key words when typing. Makes it a little easier for the kids to spot them.
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Gah – minor edit – the incorrect subordination I’ve seen is subordinating biology to taxonomy.
November 3rd, 2009 at 1:41 am
KennyCelican:
There was a time in my life when I was better versed in the finer details of evolution, but I can’t help you as much now. I think you’re better off asking your question at a blog run by somebody who is currently doing real biology. Maybe some of us can answer parts of your questions.
November 3rd, 2009 at 6:12 am
KennyCelican: I’ve seen those arguments myself. However, I can’t say I’ve seen them in an actual debate of some sort (even a bloggy one). That’s not to say I don’t believe you — not at all! I’m sure somebody has done that.
Usually the “don’t use modern medicine” line is thrown back at a fundie who is actively suppressing science education in some form or another.
For the “without evolution, no modern medicine” — I haven’t seen that one before, but I can see where it is coming from. Without the knowledge of evolution, there might indeed be some discoveries that would have taken longer (or not happened at all) since it was predicated on the idea that things like bacteria do evolve.
Anyway, I too am interested in somebody more experty pointing out the fallacies within. I’m just an enthusiastic amateur.
November 3rd, 2009 at 7:54 am
It isn’t just the past eight years. I said this on Pharyngula just this morning – America has never really worked. It’s a set of good ideas that never fully got off the ground. Every advance we’ve managed to make – abolition, suffrage, civil rights – has been made at a cost of tremendous suffering and death – and this is still a nation of abject morons.
I say it again – we need to run this place like a republic for a while. Let the authoritarians do what they do best: submit to authority – this time, to people with a fucking brain.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:32 am
Has there been any successful and humanitarian authoritarian nation? Not that I know of. Has there been any democratic nation that is perfect? Not that I know of either.
Sometimes you just got to realize that the best you can do is, well, the best you can do.
November 4th, 2009 at 7:49 am
Well, they aren’t perfect, but as I keep saying, the Western European countries have managed to implement all of the ideals we say we’re in favor of, but can’t manage to pull off.
But Islamization will probably kill that, now.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
The Western European countries really haven’t managed to implement ALL of them, except maybe if you sum them all up, and that’s really comparing apples to oranges. They’ve done some each, yes, but in each case they’re working with a smaller and less culturally diverse mix of people. I’ve relatives in a few countries, coworkers in others, and in each case there are points of failure.
Please note, I’m not bashing them; I’m more pointing at PLs comment in agreement; they’re each doing the best they can given the situation they had. The sad part is that the Eurasian Fundie flavor does indeed appear to be taking over, much as the American Fundie flavor is taking over here, and it appears to be via a similar method. “Outbreed the unbelievers!”
The thought that people would use procreation as a political tool is absolutely abhorrent.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:52 am
Indeed, as they mass procreate, the earth slowly dies, as the earth is already overpopulated with humans. As I’ve said before, once we are able to colonize and teraform planets, humans should feel free to procreate like little fucking bunny rabbits. Until then, give the earth a rest. For fuck’s sake, do you need more than two kids? Really, do you?! If you do, adopt! It’s not like there aren’t kids who need a home.
Sometimes I wish we could put all the abrahamic religion fundies in a big thunderdome thing and let them just kill each other like they want to do, and leave the rest of us alone.
November 5th, 2009 at 8:53 am
I really get annoyed when I see some teary-eyed couple on TV talking about how desperately they want a child, how they’ve been trying for years, been to fertility clinics, has several failed in vitro attempts, etc. You just want to slap them.
As for this:
it sounds like something I’d say (and do, on a daily basis).
November 5th, 2009 at 8:59 am
I say we should put that to a vote.
Oh, no! The fundies are still allowed to vote, and the measure went down to defeat!
November 5th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
I agree. There is a lot of talk about prohibiting abortions on the public plan (and the exchange, etc.), but what we need to do is prohibit fertility treatments.
If anything sounds like Jeff, that does!
November 5th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
(Harumph!)
November 5th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
“I really get annoyed when I see some teary-eyed couple on TV talking about how desperately they want a child, how they’ve been trying for years, been to fertility clinics, has several failed in vitro attempts, etc. You just want to slap them.”
143 million (give or take) orphans in the world and someone’s gene pool vanity makes them too proud to adopt one of them.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:47 am
That’s about it. And where are the Christians in all of this? Aren’t they supposed to be worried about their souls? 143 million would be an awful lot of soldiers for Christ. The Duggars could have had half as many children, adopted an equal number, and still been ahead of the curve in terms of disseminating their genetic material. Pun intended.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Actually, there’s an important distinction here between memetics and genetics, as well as an important point about the overlap between the two.
First, (the distinction) the Fundies are more concerned with propogating their memes (as Brin uses the term) than their genes. The Duggars want batches of little Fundies, not batches of little non-Fundie Duggars.
Second, (the overlap) the Fundamentalist Abrahamic religions all buy in to the ’sins of the fathers / blood will tell’ meme. That means that folks like the Duggars wind up believing that little blood Duggars will make better Fundies than little adopted Duggars.
I’m not saying any of that is right or wrong (not that I don’t have an opinion, I’m just witholding it for now). I’m just analyzing the situation, defining the problem, as it were. There really are two angles of attack; to erode the Fundie desire to procreate like mad (which would require an argument based on Stewarship) or to erode the Fundie aversion to adoption (which would require an argument based on charity).
November 9th, 2009 at 6:38 am
Also, they can’t put themselves out of business, as it were. Modern “missions” to spread the “good news” (heavy irony quotes) to starving villages, destroying as many local traditions in the process, is a huge money maker for ginormous religious institutions! Not that you could ever adopt out all the children that need homes in reality, but they don’t want to either because then they can’t get the “White Man’s Burden” ego trip by going to foreign lands with lots of brown people whose local traditions they want to destroy.
February 28th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Evolution is not science; it is a false religion which has led many astray such as yourself.
February 28th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Jerry:
In what way is it not science? Don’t use that hoary old lie that nobody has observed evolution. We have.
March 4th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
these people are out and out crazy. so what else is new! demand the separation of their church with our state. my religion requires you not impose yours on mine.
thank you very much.