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	<title>Comments on: American Taliban Calls Kettle Black</title>
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	<description>Keeping the Radical Right at Bay</description>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38921</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38921</guid>
		<description>There may very well be a newer one.  The court is definitely in its most &quot;activist&quot; mode it has been in a very long time.  Sort of ironic.  Both us and fundies are complaining about &quot;activism&quot; in the court, but I suppose I&#039;m using the term more literally, whereas activist to a fundie just means &quot;a decision I don&#039;t like.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There may very well be a newer one.  The court is definitely in its most &#8220;activist&#8221; mode it has been in a very long time.  Sort of ironic.  Both us and fundies are complaining about &#8220;activism&#8221; in the court, but I suppose I&#8217;m using the term more literally, whereas activist to a fundie just means &#8220;a decision I don&#8217;t like.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Britton</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38909</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Britton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38909</guid>
		<description>That might be it, but it&#039;s from 2005.  I thought it was more recent than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That might be it, but it&#8217;s from 2005.  I thought it was more recent than that.</p>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38903</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38903</guid>
		<description>Teh Google told me that this might be what you are looking for:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/jul2005/tenc-j06.shtml

(Search terms were &quot;supreme court church and state&quot; and it was like the forth or fifth match.)

I don&#039;t see anything about complaints or lack thereof (but I just skimmed - short attention span right now), so maybe it&#039;s not what you are mentioning.  Interestingly, no &lt;em&gt;opinion&lt;/em&gt; spoke for the majority of justices, so apparently that means it doesn&#039;t set precedent.  Weird!  I did not know that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teh Google told me that this might be what you are looking for:<br />
<a href="http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/jul2005/tenc-j06.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/jul2005/tenc-j06.shtml</a></p>
<p>(Search terms were &#8220;supreme court church and state&#8221; and it was like the forth or fifth match.)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see anything about complaints or lack thereof (but I just skimmed &#8211; short attention span right now), so maybe it&#8217;s not what you are mentioning.  Interestingly, no <em>opinion</em> spoke for the majority of justices, so apparently that means it doesn&#8217;t set precedent.  Weird!  I did not know that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Britton</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38862</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Britton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38862</guid>
		<description>OtherRob:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Wow, the Supreme Court actually said that a gov’t endorsement of religion was constitutional because no one had complained?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My recollection was that it was a religious phrase or symbol on government property that had been there for decades and nobody complained until recently.  This was an actual Supreme Court decision that came out in 2007 or 2008.  It got a lot of coverage in the press.  It was one of two or three decisions that the court announced on the same day.  Each decision went a different way, which is one reason it got so much coverage.

I can&#039;t find a reference to it now, because if you search on &quot;separation of church and state&quot; you get a zillion hits.  I&#039;m not a lawyer, so I don&#039;t know how to do an efficient search on court decisions.

Over at Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, I did find a court decision from 1986 that seems relevant to the specific case I mentioned in the article.  The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.au.org/resources/court-decisions/archives/bd-of-trs-v-mccreary.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; title=&quot;Go to AU summary. Opens in new window.&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;AU summary&lt;/a&gt; says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;Bd. of Trs. v. McCreary&lt;/b&gt;

The Court affirmed, without opinion, a lower court decision that held that the village park was a traditional public forum, and therefore, permitting the display of a creche during the Christmas holiday season at virtually no expense to it was not a violation of the Establishment Clause.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OtherRob:</p>
<blockquote><p>Wow, the Supreme Court actually said that a gov’t endorsement of religion was constitutional because no one had complained?</p></blockquote>
<p>My recollection was that it was a religious phrase or symbol on government property that had been there for decades and nobody complained until recently.  This was an actual Supreme Court decision that came out in 2007 or 2008.  It got a lot of coverage in the press.  It was one of two or three decisions that the court announced on the same day.  Each decision went a different way, which is one reason it got so much coverage.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t find a reference to it now, because if you search on &#8220;separation of church and state&#8221; you get a zillion hits.  I&#8217;m not a lawyer, so I don&#8217;t know how to do an efficient search on court decisions.</p>
<p>Over at Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, I did find a court decision from 1986 that seems relevant to the specific case I mentioned in the article.  The <a href="http://www.au.org/resources/court-decisions/archives/bd-of-trs-v-mccreary.html" target="_blank" title="Go to AU summary. Opens in new window." rel="nofollow">AU summary</a> says:</p>
<blockquote><p><b>Bd. of Trs. v. McCreary</b></p>
<p>The Court affirmed, without opinion, a lower court decision that held that the village park was a traditional public forum, and therefore, permitting the display of a creche during the Christmas holiday season at virtually no expense to it was not a violation of the Establishment Clause.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: OtherRob</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38847</link>
		<dc:creator>OtherRob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 03:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38847</guid>
		<description>Wow, the Supreme Court actually said that a gov&#039;t endorsement of religion was constitutional because no one had complained? That&#039;s just wrong -- the idea, I mean, not your reporting of the fact. Was it part of an actual ruling? Or was it just something one of the justices said during arguments?

If that is, indeed, the new standard, then I agree that it needs to be challenged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, the Supreme Court actually said that a gov&#8217;t endorsement of religion was constitutional because no one had complained? That&#8217;s just wrong &#8212; the idea, I mean, not your reporting of the fact. Was it part of an actual ruling? Or was it just something one of the justices said during arguments?</p>
<p>If that is, indeed, the new standard, then I agree that it needs to be challenged.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Britton</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38817</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Britton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 04:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38817</guid>
		<description>OtherRob:

I agree that we should pick our battles and this one seems low on the list.  However, I think that it&#039;s vital that complaints be lodged against it.  Last year, the Supreme Court had several wishy-washy separation rulings.  In one case, they said that a city endorsement of religion was constitutional, because nobody had complained about it in all these years.  So now we have precedent by the Supreme Court that some government establishment of religion is OK.  Should we let them narrow the First Amendment some more by allowing more places to go unchallenged?  If the standard is that no one complained, then it&#039;s time to complain about them all, so none slide by on that loophole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OtherRob:</p>
<p>I agree that we should pick our battles and this one seems low on the list.  However, I think that it&#8217;s vital that complaints be lodged against it.  Last year, the Supreme Court had several wishy-washy separation rulings.  In one case, they said that a city endorsement of religion was constitutional, because nobody had complained about it in all these years.  So now we have precedent by the Supreme Court that some government establishment of religion is OK.  Should we let them narrow the First Amendment some more by allowing more places to go unchallenged?  If the standard is that no one complained, then it&#8217;s time to complain about them all, so none slide by on that loophole.</p>
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		<title>By: OtherRob</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38813</link>
		<dc:creator>OtherRob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 04:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38813</guid>
		<description>I think I&#039;m with Arkonbey on this one. I&#039;m not familiar with the crossroads in question or the nature of the nativity scene, but I think I&#039;d let this one go, particularly if it&#039;s been going on for 63 years.

Yes, if it&#039;s on public land, it&#039;s a violation of the Constitution, but I think it&#039;s probably a pick-your-battles kinda thing to just let it go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I&#8217;m with Arkonbey on this one. I&#8217;m not familiar with the crossroads in question or the nature of the nativity scene, but I think I&#8217;d let this one go, particularly if it&#8217;s been going on for 63 years.</p>
<p>Yes, if it&#8217;s on public land, it&#8217;s a violation of the Constitution, but I think it&#8217;s probably a pick-your-battles kinda thing to just let it go.</p>
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		<title>By: CybrgnX</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38808</link>
		<dc:creator>CybrgnX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 00:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38808</guid>
		<description>It would be amazing if Xtians as a hole weren&#039;t so g0d damned ignorant. 25Dec - birth of the sun g0d - evergreen - parties - gifts ALL STOLEN by the Xtians from us pagans. All to sell-a-brate on the WRONG day the birth of a myth!  Then they get all pissy about someone not liking the government to support the religious part. They are NO BETTER then the other taliban!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be amazing if Xtians as a hole weren&#8217;t so g0d damned ignorant. 25Dec &#8211; birth of the sun g0d &#8211; evergreen &#8211; parties &#8211; gifts ALL STOLEN by the Xtians from us pagans. All to sell-a-brate on the WRONG day the birth of a myth!  Then they get all pissy about someone not liking the government to support the religious part. They are NO BETTER then the other taliban!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: The Runaway Lawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38804</link>
		<dc:creator>The Runaway Lawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38804</guid>
		<description>I wish religious folks like this would put their seemingly unending energies into actually bringing some positive change to the world.  Just think about what could be accomplished if they would put their enthusiasm into feeding the homeless or teaching people to read instead of fretting over whether retil workers wish them &quot;Happy Holidays&quot; rather than &quot;Merry Christmas.&quot;  WWJD, indeed.  Bleh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish religious folks like this would put their seemingly unending energies into actually bringing some positive change to the world.  Just think about what could be accomplished if they would put their enthusiasm into feeding the homeless or teaching people to read instead of fretting over whether retil workers wish them &#8220;Happy Holidays&#8221; rather than &#8220;Merry Christmas.&#8221;  WWJD, indeed.  Bleh.</p>
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		<title>By: Arkonbey</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38801</link>
		<dc:creator>Arkonbey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38801</guid>
		<description>The over-reaction to the &quot;War on Christmas&quot; is utterly insipid, even ignoring the big part the Christianity still plays in our culture.

On the other hand, ordering the nativity display taken down actually looks like the &#039;War on Christmas&#039; the conservative loundmouths gripe about. 

We need to pick our battles. 

Ten Commandments on permanent display in a courthouse? That&#039;s incredibly dangerous, get rid of it immediately. 

A privately-funded, very temporary religious display erected at a crossroads? Meh. I might shake my head at the credulity of the whole thing, but I would not be offended by it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The over-reaction to the &#8220;War on Christmas&#8221; is utterly insipid, even ignoring the big part the Christianity still plays in our culture.</p>
<p>On the other hand, ordering the nativity display taken down actually looks like the &#8216;War on Christmas&#8217; the conservative loundmouths gripe about. </p>
<p>We need to pick our battles. </p>
<p>Ten Commandments on permanent display in a courthouse? That&#8217;s incredibly dangerous, get rid of it immediately. </p>
<p>A privately-funded, very temporary religious display erected at a crossroads? Meh. I might shake my head at the credulity of the whole thing, but I would not be offended by it.</p>
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		<title>By: gustavolk-swagen</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38799</link>
		<dc:creator>gustavolk-swagen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38799</guid>
		<description>My guess will be that Americans United are going to have a field day with this one.  If only Colbert or Stewart would pick it up...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guess will be that Americans United are going to have a field day with this one.  If only Colbert or Stewart would pick it up&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: thoughtcounts Z</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/2033/american-taliban-calls-kettle-black/comment-page-1#comment-38795</link>
		<dc:creator>thoughtcounts Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/?p=2033#comment-38795</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;“Purported” to act. That’s because in culturally diverse modern America, there couldn’t possibly be a non-Christian living in a city of 134,000.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

...or a Christian who values the idea of separation of church and state. No, impossible!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>“Purported” to act. That’s because in culturally diverse modern America, there couldn’t possibly be a non-Christian living in a city of 134,000.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230;or a Christian who values the idea of separation of church and state. No, impossible!</p>
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