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	<title>Comments on: Creationist Worldview Program</title>
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	<description>Keeping the Radical Right at Bay</description>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-52507</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 20:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-52507</guid>
		<description>Not to pick too deeply into nits, but time didn&#039;t exist pre-Universe.  Time is a construct in and of our universe.  It&#039;s a mathematical dimension of reality, the same as width, height, and depth (and maybe others).  As such, pre-universe, the &quot;waiting&quot; of time didn&#039;t even have to occur.  To an outside &quot;observer&quot; (I&#039;m stretching terms to their limits here) for whom time as we know it simply exists as yet another dimension, all that was, is, or will be is stretched out before them to examine however they want.  

So, my point is that every possible random set of pre-universe preconditions may have been happening exactly simultaneously, resulting in infinite numbers of universes with different physics than our own.  We just happen to be in this one, which looks they way it does and acts the way it does.  And this may still be occurring simultaneously across all time as we know it &quot;outside&quot; our universe.  No waiting period required.  It just was, is, and will be because the &lt;em&gt;math&lt;/em&gt; makes it possible.

&lt;em&gt;* Unlike fundies, I reserve the right to change my opinion as new discoveries are made about the true origins of our universe by real scientists doing real science and not illiterate sheep hearders.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to pick too deeply into nits, but time didn&#8217;t exist pre-Universe.  Time is a construct in and of our universe.  It&#8217;s a mathematical dimension of reality, the same as width, height, and depth (and maybe others).  As such, pre-universe, the &#8220;waiting&#8221; of time didn&#8217;t even have to occur.  To an outside &#8220;observer&#8221; (I&#8217;m stretching terms to their limits here) for whom time as we know it simply exists as yet another dimension, all that was, is, or will be is stretched out before them to examine however they want.  </p>
<p>So, my point is that every possible random set of pre-universe preconditions may have been happening exactly simultaneously, resulting in infinite numbers of universes with different physics than our own.  We just happen to be in this one, which looks they way it does and acts the way it does.  And this may still be occurring simultaneously across all time as we know it &#8220;outside&#8221; our universe.  No waiting period required.  It just was, is, and will be because the <em>math</em> makes it possible.</p>
<p><em>* Unlike fundies, I reserve the right to change my opinion as new discoveries are made about the true origins of our universe by real scientists doing real science and not illiterate sheep hearders.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Reverend Flash</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-52504</link>
		<dc:creator>Reverend Flash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 11:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-52504</guid>
		<description>Dear Jennifer in CA - It would be hard to believe that &quot;hundreds of minute details lined up perfectly against all odds&quot; if it was only the product of a pre-universe&#039;s single attempt. But if the lifeless void that predated our present universe needed a certain exact group of random events to happen in order for said universe to begin to exist, then all that would be required would be time. Just like playing a lottery enough times can almost guarantee you a win (even if centuries have to pass before your numbers get picked) or in the way that a bunch of monkeys banging randomly for years in a room full of typewriters will ultimately plagiarize some Shakespeare, enough attempts to succeed at something for which there are steep odds will ultimately bring you to your goal. If something only happens once out of a million times, let it happen a million times so that one victorious time comes up. All you have to do is wait. And all the pre-universe had to do was wait - wait, and set a different bunch of variables into motion over and over again without intelligent design until finally the magic combo was discovered. And considering that there is no beginning or end to a timeline, there was never any danger of there not being enough time for this to work out as it did. So, Jennifer, it was way more than HUNDREDS of minute details - more like MILLIONS, at least, but the overwhelming odds against it proved quite underwhelming since we had time on our side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Jennifer in CA &#8211; It would be hard to believe that &#8220;hundreds of minute details lined up perfectly against all odds&#8221; if it was only the product of a pre-universe&#8217;s single attempt. But if the lifeless void that predated our present universe needed a certain exact group of random events to happen in order for said universe to begin to exist, then all that would be required would be time. Just like playing a lottery enough times can almost guarantee you a win (even if centuries have to pass before your numbers get picked) or in the way that a bunch of monkeys banging randomly for years in a room full of typewriters will ultimately plagiarize some Shakespeare, enough attempts to succeed at something for which there are steep odds will ultimately bring you to your goal. If something only happens once out of a million times, let it happen a million times so that one victorious time comes up. All you have to do is wait. And all the pre-universe had to do was wait &#8211; wait, and set a different bunch of variables into motion over and over again without intelligent design until finally the magic combo was discovered. And considering that there is no beginning or end to a timeline, there was never any danger of there not being enough time for this to work out as it did. So, Jennifer, it was way more than HUNDREDS of minute details &#8211; more like MILLIONS, at least, but the overwhelming odds against it proved quite underwhelming since we had time on our side.</p>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-50650</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-50650</guid>
		<description>The bible disagrees with itself all the time.  Texas is just following suit, like a good christian nation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bible disagrees with itself all the time.  Texas is just following suit, like a good christian nation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-50647</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-50647</guid>
		<description>So, Texas mandates the teaching of creationism in science classes, but, once they&#039;ve graduated - all of a sudden, it&#039;s not science?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Texas mandates the teaching of creationism in science classes, but, once they&#8217;ve graduated &#8211; all of a sudden, it&#8217;s not science?</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Darrell</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-50640</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Darrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-50640</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s all the dust about here?

Ah, I see -- someone found the old post.

Hey, the good news is the courts have tossed ICR&#039;s appeal of Texas&#039;s refusal to let them grant science degrees in that crap -- it&#039;s just not science.

See here:
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/creationism-crash-covered/

And here:
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/institute-for-creation-research-loses-bid-to-give-creationism-degrees-in-texas/

So, Texas won&#039;t honor ICR&#039;s telling lies about science.  Whether Christians wish to join creationists in telling lies is their right, but rather contrary to most Christian theology, it seems to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s all the dust about here?</p>
<p>Ah, I see &#8212; someone found the old post.</p>
<p>Hey, the good news is the courts have tossed ICR&#8217;s appeal of Texas&#8217;s refusal to let them grant science degrees in that crap &#8212; it&#8217;s just not science.</p>
<p>See here:<br />
<a href="http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/creationism-crash-covered/" rel="nofollow">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/creationism-crash-covered/</a></p>
<p>And here:<br />
<a href="http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/institute-for-creation-research-loses-bid-to-give-creationism-degrees-in-texas/" rel="nofollow">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/institute-for-creation-research-loses-bid-to-give-creationism-degrees-in-texas/</a></p>
<p>So, Texas won&#8217;t honor ICR&#8217;s telling lies about science.  Whether Christians wish to join creationists in telling lies is their right, but rather contrary to most Christian theology, it seems to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Britton</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-50639</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Britton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-50639</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Um wow – we don’t believe in a flat earth… &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Why not?  Don&#039;t you believe what &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/216/the-flat-earth-bible&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; title=&quot;Go to &#039;The Flat-Earth Bible&#039; at BoF&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;your Bible tells you&lt;/a&gt;?

&lt;blockquote&gt;And don’t you think it takes a lot more faith to believe that hundreds of minute details lined up perfectly against all odds to create a Big Bang, than that there might be a God who created us all?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Um wow – we don’t believe in a flat earth… </p></blockquote>
<p>Why not?  Don&#8217;t you believe what <a href="http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/216/the-flat-earth-bible" target="_blank" title="Go to 'The Flat-Earth Bible' at BoF" rel="nofollow">your Bible tells you</a>?</p>
<blockquote><p>And don’t you think it takes a lot more faith to believe that hundreds of minute details lined up perfectly against all odds to create a Big Bang, than that there might be a God who created us all?</p></blockquote>
<p>No.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Britton</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-50638</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Britton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-50638</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;*cough* *cough* This is a dusty article. *Rubs eyes* Sorry… better now.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hey!  All of my articles are as fresh now as the day they were written!  They&#039;re also a lot fresher than the ideas taught in the ICR correspondence course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>*cough* *cough* This is a dusty article. *Rubs eyes* Sorry… better now.</p></blockquote>
<p>Hey!  All of my articles are as fresh now as the day they were written!  They&#8217;re also a lot fresher than the ideas taught in the ICR correspondence course.</p>
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		<title>By: Parrotlover77</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-50625</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrotlover77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-50625</guid>
		<description>*cough* *cough* This is a dusty article.  *Rubs eyes*  Sorry... better now.

&lt;blockquote&gt;...hundreds of minute details lined up perfectly against all odds to create a Big Bang...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Dear Drive-By Poster Jennifer in CA:

You clearly have very little (maybe none?) concept of what the Big Bang Theory is.  That&#039;s okay.  I&#039;ll be honest when I say that I struggle to grasp the finer details of what the theory describes.  Math is hard, afterall.

But if you think that the mechanism by which a magical daddy poofed all of existence into existence is &lt;em&gt;less&lt;/em&gt; complicated than the quantum events necessary to lead up to what is known as the Big Bang, then... well... There is no hope for you.

Sincerely,
Parrotlover77</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*cough* *cough* This is a dusty article.  *Rubs eyes*  Sorry&#8230; better now.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;hundreds of minute details lined up perfectly against all odds to create a Big Bang&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Dear Drive-By Poster Jennifer in CA:</p>
<p>You clearly have very little (maybe none?) concept of what the Big Bang Theory is.  That&#8217;s okay.  I&#8217;ll be honest when I say that I struggle to grasp the finer details of what the theory describes.  Math is hard, afterall.</p>
<p>But if you think that the mechanism by which a magical daddy poofed all of existence into existence is <em>less</em> complicated than the quantum events necessary to lead up to what is known as the Big Bang, then&#8230; well&#8230; There is no hope for you.</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Parrotlover77</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-50623</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 20:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-50623</guid>
		<description>Wow, Jennifer. I&#039;ve never heard that argument before. I&#039;m going to forget everything I&#039;ve ever learned about evolution and embrace your deity. Oh, wait, which deity are you talking about? I mean, there are so many that are supposed to be responsible for the universe, how am I to know I&#039;m worshipping the right one? Since so many religions emphasize a hell for non-believers and those who picked the wrong religion, I really want to get this right. Your insights will be appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Jennifer. I&#8217;ve never heard that argument before. I&#8217;m going to forget everything I&#8217;ve ever learned about evolution and embrace your deity. Oh, wait, which deity are you talking about? I mean, there are so many that are supposed to be responsible for the universe, how am I to know I&#8217;m worshipping the right one? Since so many religions emphasize a hell for non-believers and those who picked the wrong religion, I really want to get this right. Your insights will be appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer in CA</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-50622</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer in CA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-50622</guid>
		<description>Um wow - we don&#039;t believe in a flat earth... 

And don&#039;t you think it takes a lot more faith to believe that hundreds of minute details lined up perfectly against all odds to create a Big Bang, than that there might be a God who created us all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um wow &#8211; we don&#8217;t believe in a flat earth&#8230; </p>
<p>And don&#8217;t you think it takes a lot more faith to believe that hundreds of minute details lined up perfectly against all odds to create a Big Bang, than that there might be a God who created us all?</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Britton</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-15242</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Britton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-15242</guid>
		<description>John:

This blog is full of research.  In fact, if &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; did any, you&#039;d see that we&#039;ve already thoroughly covered Ben Stein&#039;s movie (at least as much of it as anybody who doesn&#039;t sign a non-disclosure agreement and loyalty oath is allow to see).

Evolution has been covered in this blog extensively.  Again, if you had done any research, you&#039;d know that.

In fact, if you had done any research at all, you&#039;d know that evolution is a fact supported by more data than almost anything else in science.  Since you refuse to believe that, I think you should apply to the Creationist Worldview Program.  It&#039;s designed for lazy people incapable of critical thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John:</p>
<p>This blog is full of research.  In fact, if <i>you</i> did any, you&#8217;d see that we&#8217;ve already thoroughly covered Ben Stein&#8217;s movie (at least as much of it as anybody who doesn&#8217;t sign a non-disclosure agreement and loyalty oath is allow to see).</p>
<p>Evolution has been covered in this blog extensively.  Again, if you had done any research, you&#8217;d know that.</p>
<p>In fact, if you had done any research at all, you&#8217;d know that evolution is a fact supported by more data than almost anything else in science.  Since you refuse to believe that, I think you should apply to the Creationist Worldview Program.  It&#8217;s designed for lazy people incapable of critical thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program/comment-page-1#comment-15238</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/166/creationist-worldview-program#comment-15238</guid>
		<description>It might add just a touch of credibility to your comments if you actually got off your butt and did a little research.  The world is full of lazy, sarcastic critics who couldn&#039;t critically and honestly think their way out of a wet paper bag, and after reading your comments, I believe I&#039;ve found one more. Check out Ben Stein&#039;s film this spring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might add just a touch of credibility to your comments if you actually got off your butt and did a little research.  The world is full of lazy, sarcastic critics who couldn&#8217;t critically and honestly think their way out of a wet paper bag, and after reading your comments, I believe I&#8217;ve found one more. Check out Ben Stein&#8217;s film this spring.</p>
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