Kangaroos: Jumping to the Wrong Conclusions with Conservapedia

Conservapedia is a fun site to cruise around. It’s like the Weekly World News. It’s so crazy that you can’t imagine anybody taking it seriously. I doubt that anybody believes the WWN, but the scary thing is that some people actually believe Conservapedia.

White-Trash Kangaroos

If you don’t laugh you’ll cry, so let’s laugh a little at the Conservapedia article on kangaroos. (You might want to read my prior article on fundie taxonomy, if you haven’t yet. It explains how fundies have their own classification scheme, “baramins”, instead of using the evil taxonomy created by those atheistic, puppy-killing, baby-raping evolutionists.)

Kangaroos are the largest Marsupials alive today. They are now native to the continent of Australia. There are four sub-kinds in the kangaroo baramin…

“Now native”? How about always native? (More on this below, or should I say “moron this below”?) Then they tell us there are four “sub-kinds”. That’s about as scientific as they get, folks.

…or at least sixty-nine species according to evolutionary views, which include wallabies and tree-kangaroos.

I’m kind of surprised they even mention the evolutionary perspective. Maybe that’s so they can discredit it with their Bible. I mean who are you going to believe? Omniscient, Almighty God or some clown with a PhD?

I’m sure you’re aware that scientists use Latin names (binomial nomenclature) for all species. One reason for this is to help them classify the species within the larger context of evolution. The other reason is so they can know which species other scientists are talking about. Common names for plants and animals vary widely throughout the world. For example, the American bison (Bison bison) is more commonly known as a buffalo. True buffaloes are native (excuse me, “now native”) to Africa (Syncerus caffer) and Asia (Bubalus bubalis). If two scientists start talking about “buffaloes”, how can they be sure that they’re talking about the same thing? Hence, binomial nomenclature.

This raises the interesting question of how creationists handle this problem. I don’t know what they do. Maybe they don’t have this problem, because there is no such thing as a fundie scientist.

Here’s the funny part. If you look at the alternate text description (in the HTML) for the image of the Eastern Grey Kangaroo on the Conservapedia page, it lists the kangaroo’s scientific name, Macropus giganteus! They aren’t even using their own system!

Like all Marsupials, female kangaroos have a pouch on their stomachs in which they carry their young.

Really? Attached to the stomach, you say? Wouldn’t the joey suffocate, being inside its mother’s abdomen like that? This is typical of the accurate descriptions that Conservapedia is known for.

The newborn joey weighs as little as .03 ounces when first born, after which it crawls into its mothers pouch…

Note the blind adherence to the U.S. customary system of measurement, even though it’s impractical in this situation. Conservapedia doesn’t want to be anything like Wikipedia, which uses the evil (read non-American) metric system. Conservapedia sticks to good-enough-for-my-great-great-grandfather pounds and ounces, just like they stick to 3000-year-old fairy stories to explain the origins of the Universe. The fact that something better has come along in both cases is irrelevant. “Conservative” apparently doesn’t mean “resistant to change”; it means “rabidly afraid of change”.

The other thing to notice about the quoted sentence is that “mothers” is spelled without an apostrophe. That error is repeated throughout the article. The content reads like it was written by a second grader. The spelling is proof.

Kangaroos have adapted to the varied conditions across Australia in many ways.

Sounds like evolution to me!

The tiny newly born kangaroo (less than 25 mm long)…

Whoops! How did millimeters slip in here? This is especially surprising, considering that 25 mm is almost exactly one inch. It would have been easy to make the substitution.

…moves unaided into its mother’s pouch and attaches itself to one of four teats.

Wow! I can’t believe a fundie was able to build up enough courage to use the word “teat”! Careful there! The next thing you know, you’ll be reading Playboy and raping women!

…but as it matures and begins to grow hair it also develops the ability to release and reattach itself to the teat.

When most guys mature and begin to grow hair, they develop the ability to grab teats. I thought we were supposed to be talking about kangaroos here.

Consistent with their view that the fossil record as a whole does not support the evolutionary position, creationists state that there is a lack of transitional fossils showing an evolutionary origin of kangaroos.

Just keep this sentence in mind for later.

According to the origins theory model used by creation scientists…

Two mistakes here:
1. Origins “theory” isn’t a theory, because it isn’t accepted by scientists.
2. Creation “scientists” are anything but scientists.

…modern kangaroos are the descendants of the two founding members of the modern kangaroo baramin that were taken aboard Noah’s Ark prior to the Great Flood.

Holy crap! You’ve got to be frakking kidding me!

After the Flood, these kangaroos bred from the Ark passengers migrated to Australia.

They must have left immediately for Australia, because there are no kangaroos living in the Middle East! In fact, they must have made it to Australia in record time, because there are no kangaroos anywhere between Mount Ararat and Australia. What did they do? Hop a Qantas flight?

The idea that God simply generated kangaroos into existence there is considered by most creation researchers to be contra-Biblical.

Well, if it’s not in the Bible, it couldn’t have happened, even if God did it! Sorry, God. You’ve been rejected. If it’s not in the Bible, you didn’t do it!

Remember above when it said that creationists do not accept evolution of kangaroos, because of the “lack of transitional fossils”? Yet they claim that kangaroos hopped off the boat on Mount Ararat and somehow managed to migrate thousands of miles to Australia without leaving one single fossil behind?

There are fossils that show the evolution of kangaroos. There are no fossils that show that kangaroos ever inhabited the Middle East. Who are you going to believe? Omniscient, Almighty God (for which there is also no proof) or some clown with a PhD (and mountains of evidence)?

45 Responses to “Kangaroos: Jumping to the Wrong Conclusions with Conservapedia”

  1. sopfkpoksdf Says:

    wow. you are really quite the stupid idiot. stop wasting your time critisizing dunces and find something better to do. honestly.

  2. fred Says:

    lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is priceless his face is so funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

  3. doug Says:

    wow. you are really quite the stupid idiot. stop wasting your time critisizing dunces and find something better to do. honestly.

    Actually, most of us enjoy the site — and just to reply in the same tone:
    sopfkpoksdf — you’re a fucking cock.

  4. JBunny Says:

    Agreed, Doug!!

    This site keeps me sane… I live in NC – and I’ve got a welt from the bible belt!

    Sopfkposdf – can piss off (hahaha – get it? The cock is pissing off!)

    :0)

  5. Parrotlover77 Says:

    I’m in NC too, JBunny. I’m in the RTP area, so I don’t run into many bible belters. I’m hoping we can take the state over eventually since there is an abundance of brains in the triangle to counteract the bumpkins out in the stix. ;-)

  6. Sarah Says:

    Wow…they even fail at basic writing XD But still..this is supposed to be a science article, right? So…

    WHERE DID ALL THE SCIENCE GO?

    Why into the real scientist’s evidence-based peer-reviewed studies! (Yes, vair bad joke there…but I doubt anyone will recognize the reference)

  7. marisa Says:

    i think this is funny but racist i mean not all white people are like that just bad ones and the abusive cruel ones so thats my comment peace out

  8. joy Says:

    Love it! What fun?

    Does it really matter what anyone believes?

    While I was wandering around the Lake Mungo region, there is a great display at the shearing shed on Mungo Station by NPWS. There is a large woolly wombat, a huge kangaroo all really oversized and models are made from the remains of giant bones found in the dunes of Lake Mungo, ancient lake dried up some 30,000 years ago. It’s a wonderful display and shows the ancestors of these rather small animals by comparison of today.

    But does it matter? Let people believe what they want, we came from space, we came from God, we came from seeds dropped on a bar room floor that grew in stale beer, whatever……

    what is important, is we are here today with all of our funny beliefs and we should love and care for each other anyway……just have a laugh I say…….

  9. Ron Britton Says:

    Joy:

    The problem occurs when they try to teach their funny beliefs in the schools or even outside the schools. The Discovery Institute has done such a good job miseducating the populace about evolution that most people today think that evolution has been disproven.

  10. Parrotlover77 Says:

    I know it seems all warm and fuzzy to say “live and let live” when it comes to letting people believe what they want to believe. But where does it end? It starts at the large hard to answer questions, such as “where did we come from?” But it ends at things like “zomg! don’t give me somebody else’s blood, it’s worse than death!” There’s a point where superstition can be damaging. And that’s why, as Ron pointed out, we need to prevent mythology from being taught in schools as fact.

  11. Jeff Eyges Says:

    Joy, I’ll add that, while it may be different in Australia (as, I understand, it is in Europe), over here, the people who push creationism are the same ones who are attempting to commandeer absolutely every aspect of American culture and society. They genuinely believe this ought to be the United States of Jesus – and when they’ve accomplished that here, they’ll be coming for you.

    Also, I’m sick to death of being told I’m going to burn in a lake of fire for all of eternity. I am 52 years old, and I’ve seen it do nothing but get worse in my lifetime. Fuck them.

  12. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Their true colors are showing. Remember when we all hated the Taliban because they are backwards fundamentalist bastards? And remember how Christians were asserting the “we’re like totally superior because we don’t suicide bomb” line? Yea, good times.

    Except now some extreme christian fundies (and less fundie, but no less extreme) conservatives are actually coming out and saying they need to model their battle to get power back after those extremist islamic groups.

    Take that type of extremist speech, pound it into an abortion clinic bomber’s head, and poof! You now have Taliban in America. Thanks, Fundies!

    Let’s hope it doesn’t get that far.

  13. Happy Says:

    It makes me really happy when i hear from other non-religious people. Thanks guys.

  14. EspressoFrog Says:

    “There are fossils that show the evolution of kangaroos. There are no fossils that show that kangaroos ever inhabited the Middle East.” Now that’s because “creation scientists” like Kent Hovind have done a very thorough study showing that kangaroos hopped really fast from mount Ararat and used land-bridges to go to Australia, bringing with them the entire Australia fauna in their little pouches.

    Ain’t that cute ? :-)

    It’s mostly to answer to the old “ahahah, Noah for real ?! So how did do with the kangaroo, went all the way to australia just for it? LOL!”

    Don’t tell the fundies but there are also distinct faunas to account for in many other places, including small island.. but shhhhh…

    Love this site. :-)

  15. rachael Says:

    wow this shit is hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. Wade Williams Says:

    I do not believe that science disproves God in anyway. I do, however, think that alot of time people of the “Christian” faith sometimes falter in the way they express themselves and debate topics like evolution. Many of the people you and I come in contact with are often uneducated and for a more honest word, ignorant. I believe in evolution to a certain extent but I do not believe I came from an ape. However, The man that exist today is certainly not the man that existed two thousand years ago. I will tell you that I am in fact a Christian and one who believes in every piece of the bible. Therefore I feel that if my God exist and is everything he claims to be he could not only have created the world but also one with evolution. I’m not condemming anyone or saying you will burn in hell. I am merely a man of faith saying challenge my God and if he’s what he says he is he’ll show you an answer. There is nothing wrong with asking a question but there is something wrong with not looking for the answers.

  17. Pete Moulton Says:

    There is nothing wrong with asking a question but there is something wrong with not looking for the answers.

    Couldn’t agree more, Wade. You do realize that this statement undermines your whole ‘argument’, don’t you?

  18. Jeff Eyges Says:

    I am merely a man of faith saying challenge my God and if he’s what he says he is he’ll show you an answer.

    Wade, what about all those who’ve done just that, and walked away empty-handed? I’m not talking about not getting what one wants; I mean those who’ve asked God to reveal himself in a way they could understand, and who haven’t received an answer. Of course, I suppose you’ll tell us he always answers, but often we don’t see it because we’re looking for the answer we want, rather than the one we need, or some such rationalization.

  19. Parrotlover77 Says:

    I believe in evolution to a certain extent but I do not believe I came from an ape.

    The facts do not require your belief.

  20. Wade Says:

    Hey guys it’s Wade again. Sorry I haven’t responded in so long but I’ll attempt to address some of the things you said in order respectfully.

    Pete, I do not understand your statement. I never asked a question. Not really sure where you were going with that. Please explain.

    Jeff, If I would be totally honest with you I would have to say I have asked that exact same question! Where is the all mighty God that I believe in! Why does he not speak aloud to me!? I call myself his and he supposedly calls me his but I don’t see him physically backing me up on this site! ha ha. Jeff I’m a man to buddy. And no, I won’t say he always answers because he does not, however I do think he sometimes answers in the way we need. (You caught me there) Seems like you’ve either experienced that yourself or have seen it. Jesus Said in Matthew 21:21 “If you believe you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.” I would say don’t give up. Ask God, if he’s real, to show himself in your life. Understand that it might not be an audible sound or sign. The clouds probably won’t part either Jeff. Just keep your eyes open. If he doesn’t exist all you did was waste a few moments on your knees. But what if he does. Certainly would be worth it. As evangelical as it may sound I think he loves you Jeff and he’d like to connect. Sorry if that was to much or I offended you.

    Parrotlover,

    God doesn’t require our belief.

  21. Wade Says:

    BTW sorry about using the wrong form of to. Should have been too.

  22. Wade Says:

    BTW it isn’t a fact that we came from apes. It’s a theory.

  23. Ron Britton Says:

    Wade:

    You are now in violation of my comment policy (see rule #5). Please provide documentation to support your groundless assertion that we did not come from apes. Failure to do so will result in loss of commenting privileges.

  24. Jeff Eyges Says:

    Jesus Said in Matthew 21:21 “If you believe you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.” I would say don’t give up. Ask God, if he’s real, to show himself in your life. Understand that it might not be an audible sound or sign. The clouds probably won’t part either Jeff. Just keep your eyes open. If he doesn’t exist all you did was waste a few moments on your knees. But what if he does. Certainly would be worth it. As evangelical as it may sound I think he loves you Jeff and he’d like to connect.

    Many people, including myself, have done just that, Wade, and walked away empty-handed – no revelation, not getting what one needs to get through life, etc. Yours is the standard evangelical answer – don’t give up, God is true to his promise, etc. How long does one wait, Wade? When does the seeker get Wade’s permission to give up – on ones’ deathbed?

    Of course, the answer is that you’ll never say it’s okay to give up, because then you’d have to question the entire foundation of your belief system.

    As to evolution – a theory is a model, Wade, not a guess. The evolutionary model is a scientific fact, as close to absolute certainty as one can get. We and the apes – and all life – share common ancestry. That’s just the way it is.

  25. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Jesus Said in Matthew 21:21 “If you believe you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.” I would say don’t give up.

    Statistically, prayer is only as effective as random chance. So where’s the evidence? You could easily reply “you need faith, not evidence” or something to that effect, but again, that begs the question. If the faithful receive what they ask for (or at least need) by prayer, there would be statistical evidence to this effect because it would be working for the faithful. Yet, there is none whatsoever. So either there is no effect, or God has determined that what you need is exactly what he hands out for free to unbelievers who do not pray. And then, well, we’re back to a non-interfering god, which is not the same as what you are implying is real.

    If he doesn’t exist all you did was waste a few moments on your knees.

    Yay! Pascal’s Wager! I bet you thought of this all by yourself, too. Here’s a good link you likely won’t read:
    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theodore_drange/wager.html

    God doesn’t require our belief.

    You could have fooled me. Why evangelize then?

    BTW it isn’t a fact that we came from apes. It’s a theory.

    DAMNIT you stupid monkeys! Evolve already!!!

  26. Wade Says:

    Ron,

    It’s common knowledge that we still look for a missing link. If we came from apes, why wouldn’t the following stage of evolution kill them off? These other gentlemen have not provided any facts on why their theories about grandfather ape is true yet. However, with respect for our debate, Ron, I will happily oblige you.

    http://ldolphin.org/wmwilliams.html

    All of you seem to be smart men. It’s quite a lengthy read which I think you will enjoy trying to disprove. I skipped to some of the mathematical statements, and I found them to be very interesting.

    Jeff,

    You’re still alive, man. You’re still thinking, breathing, functioning as a man should. You’re able to debate with me now. You have some access to a computer. You have had some form of an education obviously. You’ve
    “gotten through life” much better than others. Maybe God’s revelation is to be revealed through us who are blessed with the lives we have. We are rich men, Jeff! Kings compared to the rest of the world! I have called on God, Jeff. I have felt his presence, and I have endured the silence of The Almighty God. He speaks to my heart and fills me up with his word. Guys, I know that sounds super gay but it’s true.

    What about the people who give God credit for curing a sickness or cancer? Granted, I live in the bible belt, but I come across that a lot. Jeff, God takes care of people. I could tell you examples from my own life because things in it are just to perfectly timed. Even the people I come into contact with. Including you fellas.
    I’m not on here trying to Evangelize you gentleman. Just a Man of Faith. I’ll continue soon, and I’ll work on responding to some of Parrotlover’s comments with some Fox news style debate. (joke) I’m calling it a night.

    God is waiting. He offered His son Jesus as a sacrifice so that we may have a personal relationship with him. Escaping hell is obviously a big bonus. You wanna see God work? Hear him speak? You talk to someone about getting Jesus in your life first. “No one comes to the father except through me.”
    -Jesus

  27. Ron Britton Says:

    Wade:

    Your article has been discredited, debunked, and disproven many times over. In my sidebar, you will see a bunch of links under “Evolution Explained”. Investigate some of those sites. They will explain what you need to know.

    You started off showing your ignorance in your very first paragraph:

    It’s common knowledge that we still look for a missing link.

    There is no such thing as a “missing link”. There are certainly gaps in the fossil record, but the term “missing link” implies that human evolution proceeded in quantum steps, each succeeding species a self-contained unit, and one of them is missing. Evolution is the gradual (and sometimes rapid) transformation of a population over time. There are no distinct steps or stages or “links”; therefore, there can not be any “missing links”.

    You then wrote:

    If we came from apes, why wouldn’t the following stage of evolution kill them off?

    Again, you’re showing a total misunderstanding of evolution. Populations change over time. One population doesn’t just poof out of existence and is replaced by another. Please consult the evolution resources in the sidebar.

    The comment policy came about because the creationism/evolution arguments go on forever on other websites. It’s an unproductive use of everybody’s time. What happens on most boards is that almost everybody else wanders off out of boredom or disgust with the repetition and the tone that inevitably arises.

    The issue is never settled, because the creationists refuse to accept the evidence. Evolution isn’t a simple of difference of opinion, like conservatism vs. liberalism, that can be settled by popular opinion on a website. Evolution is a scientific matter, and it has already been settled by the scientific method.

  28. Jeff Eyges Says:

    Jeff, God takes care of people. I could tell you examples from my own life because things in it are just to perfectly timed.

    And I could give you many examples to the contrary. You see what you want to see, Wade. At least be honest enough to admit that you will never acknowledge the possibility that your beliefs aren’t true, because you’ve staked your entire life – and afterlife – on them.

    As far as avoiding hell goes – your god is a bully, Wade. I know you’ll say that we all deserve to go there, and my response will be – no, we don’t. Evangelicals have the worst self-esteem on the planet. You all believe you’re so loathsome that you’re born deserving eternal damnation, then you project it onto the rest of humanity – “If I’m no damn good, you’re no damn good, either”. And, please, I’m not interested in apologetics – we don’t measure up to God’s standards, committing one sin is the same as committing all of them, God is holy and can’t be in the presence of sin… it just goes on and on. I’m familiar with all of them, and I reject them all, for the reason that they are all complete nonsense. These beliefs say far more about human psychology than they do about divine revelation. You’ve simply bought into everything they’ve told you.

    You’ll probably also tell us you believe because the Bible has been proven to be historically accurate, its predictions have come to pass, etc. This is false as well (and there are resources available online that could help you to see this, if you’re interested). The people who tell you these things demonstrate what is called “confirmation bias” – that is, they only allow themselves to see the “evidence” that would tend to support what they already believe, or want to, and they ignore the evidence that would disprove it. This is what your Christian apologists do – Lee Strobel is an excellent example – they claim to offer evidence to convince the unbeliever, but all their books are really designed to do is to bolster and validate the beliefs of those who are already convinced, or want to be.

    You live in the Bible Belt, and your opinions about evolution indicate your understanding of it is derived from your pastor and/or creationist and Christian apologetics websites. I’ll assume you’ve spent most of your life among people who share your world view. It’s a narrow view, Wade. The world is a big place, and there are entire populations who perceive reality very differently from the way in which you, your family and your friends perceive it.

    You wanna see God work? Hear him speak? You talk to someone about getting Jesus in your life first. “No one comes to the father except through me.” -Jesus

    This is what I was trying to explain before – there are many people who have asked Jesus to come into their lives, be their savior, etc. – and it hasn’t happened. Of course, you’ll either deny this by rationalizing that they didn’t really want him, didn’t really understand the gravity of their situation, or, if you’re a Calvinist, you’ll simply assume God didn’t want them. Again, you’ll never allow yourself to consider the possibility that you may be wrong, because the alternatives terrify you.

  29. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Whoa Wade tries to get relevant with the kids! Guys, it sounds gay, but it’s true and totally awesome, brah! I’m stoked!

    I like how he assumes we’re all men too. I know my nym “Parrotlover77″ is absolutely gender neutral. I don’t think I revealed my actual gender anywhere here, but hey, good guess at least. Nothing misogynist here, move along.

    …because things in it are just to perfectly timed.

    It’s called Confirmation Bias. It’s well known and well studied. The scientific method and the peer review process are designed to minimize this from having an effect in research. As far as I know, the Bible has no such protection against it. In fact, quite the opposite, religion thrives on Confirmation Bias.

    Oops. Looks like Jeff beat me to it with the confirmation bias call-out. ;-) Ah well. I’m keeping this in here.

    …therefore, there can not be any “missing links”.

    Ron – I would even go further and say that with the massive fossil record we have now of proto-human to human transitions (or even progenitor ape-link ancestors to proto-human, for that matter), even if you assume there were discrete steps, there are no missing gaps anymore! What I’m saying is that the “missing link” argument fails even when you assume all the incorrect assumptions needed to make that argument to begin with. There are no links that are missing in any sense.

    The reason that argument still is being used is just to make theists feel the human race was specially created (because being the most intelligent animal on the planet is not special enough).

  30. Wade Says:

    Ron can you provide a link on the debunking of the information I provided. Not being a jerk. Just would like to see it.

  31. Wade Says:

    I can understand the no missing link thing. Like what you were saying about having a gradual change.

    I’m working on replying to the rest of this stuff. Just taking it one step at at time.

  32. Wade Says:

    Lets say for a moment that I had given up on a part of creationism. Do you all think think that there could be a God or higher being that created us to evolve? Just a thought.

    I was once told that the old testament is mythology. Before you throw a party, consider this. Like the word theory, mythology is often not taken for its intended meaning. It is taken as more of a campfire story or just an old tale.

    Dictionary.com-
    Mythology: A body or collection of myths belonging to a people and addressing their origin, history, deities, ancestors, and heroes.

    So I think it is safe to say that the old testament is Hebrew Mythology. So what I’m saying is the old testament is the coming of the Hebrew people. So maybe Noah and the flood was a flood of the known Hebrew world. So kangaroos were chilling in Australia. Is it possible that I’m wrong? Ya dude it is. I never said it wasn’t. You guys have some really really good stuff. I do appreciate this discussion. Jeff I hope you never stop trying to get in touch with God man. I still believe in him and always will. Idk what to say about the people who claim that he doesn’t answer their calls. Parrot, glad your a dude. Hope I didn’t offend any women.

    On conformation bias-Very good stuff. I do agree with you. People see what they wanna see and look up what they want to find. But I don’t think theist are the only ones that do so.

    I’m going on vacation for a week. So it’ll probably be that long before I get on again if I do. I’ll say a prayer for you guys. Even if statistically it doesn’t make sense.

    God bless,

  33. Jeff Eyges Says:

    Jeff I hope you never stop trying to get in touch with God man.

    After many years, I gave up. People have the right to give up – without living in fear of going to hell.

    Idk what to say about the people who claim that he doesn’t answer their calls.

    And there you are. We’re at a stalemate.

  34. Lyle G Says:

    If dogs came from wolves,why are there still wolves?

  35. Ron Britton Says:

    If trolls come from the internet, why is there still internet?

  36. Wade Says:

    Still nothing on the debunking.

  37. Wade Says:

    And Jeff I’ve never really experience anyone who God has not answered. That’s why I don’t know what to say about that. But maybe those people are seeing what they want to see and that’s why.

    The wolves thing was pretty good. Makes sense.

  38. Jeff Eyges Says:

    And Jeff I’ve never really experience anyone who God has not answered. That’s why I don’t know what to say about that. But maybe those people are seeing what they want to see and that’s why.

    Which people – the ones who think they’re being answered, or the ones who think they aren’t?

    Experience has taught me that it’s far more likely that those who perceive an “answer” do so because they want God to exist and they want to exist forever in heaven, than it is that those who fail to get an answer are simply ignoring the evidence because they don’t want to be held “accountable” – the accusation evangelicals hurl most frequently at non-believers.

    Again – I suspect you’ve spent most of your life surrounded by people who see things as you do.

  39. Ron Britton Says:

    Wade:

    The wolves thing was pretty good. Makes sense.

    No it doesn’t. It’s the hoariest of all misunderstandings of evolution. The fact that you fall for it shows where you are at in your understanding of the topic. Again, I refer you to any of the links in my sidebar under “Understanding Evolution”.

    Still nothing on the debunking.

    I’m not going to do your work for you. You have demonstrated that you misunderstand evolution to such a huge degree that you are woefully unqualified to make the determination whether the article you linked to poses any credible challenges to evolution.

    I read a few paragraphs of it. Almost every sentence is completely out of date and has been disproven. Throw a dart. You’ll hit a factual error. Look up any of them at the Talk Origins archive, for example.

    If you want to go through life denying the facts of evolution, you should at least know what those facts are.

  40. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Lets say for a moment that I had given up on a part of creationism. Do you all think think that there could be a God or higher being that created us to evolve? Just a thought.

    Whatever floats your boat.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but what you are basically suggesting here is that you believe God set the universe in motion with the intent of evolution taking on the course it has to create humans. Well, there’s no way to disprove this because it’s unfalsifiable. In other words, there’s no way, based on our understanding of physics and the universe, that a creator did not do that. If that is what you want to believe, that’s no skin off my back.

    On the other hand, I would like to submit to you that maybe you might consider Occam’s Razor for a moment, which states that the simplest explanation is usually correct. A creator setting forth all of creation and this mighty large universe to simply create humans on this one tiny little insignificant planet is probably not the simplest solution.

    If you were referring to an even more hands-off generic God, that is what we call the “God of the Gaps” theory. That is, wherever science currently cannot explain natural phenomena, God may exist, because a supernatural explanation has not yet been disproven. Now, as with Sagan’s invisible dragons, this may be true, but proving a negative is impossible, so it leaves the question open-ended in a way that isn’t useful to think about.

    In addition, if God is so hand’s off and detached from biblical literature, does he even want or need to be worshipped? Once you start throwing out parts of the Judeo-Christian mythology, where do you stop? What parts are still real and what parts are sitll parable?

    Finally, you can mathematically prove that a completely non-interfering creator (ie, a creator that created the universe, aka the “uncaused cause”) is identical to no creator at all, because the end result, as far as any matter in the universe is concerned at this time, is exactly the same.

    The wolves thing was pretty good. Makes sense.

    Are there two Wades? Or just one big Wade Troll?

  41. Wade Says:

    Alright when I stated the wolf statment was pretty good I meant I could see that guys point. Dogs wouldn’t have killed off wolves, like I was stating before about men and apes. I was agreeing with the thoughts you wrote earlier on that Ron.

  42. Wade Says:

    New thing on evolution that could support Evolution from a biblical standpoint.

    Genesis 2:24

    “And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds; livestock, creatures that move along the ground and wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.
    NIV

    I’m still searching for answers and trying to with an open mind.

  43. dvsrat Says:

    This kangaroo essay would not have passed in my seventh-grade English class. It would not even get an ‘F.’This one would have come back from Mrs. Fitzgerald with the words “DO OVER” written across it.

  44. J Says:

    Well Wade if you really want a debunking on the article you presented I’ll do it. It is from 1925(and the second article posted is from 1899).

    Heck the webpage debunks itself if you paid attention to the opening paragraph

    “Note: This article is posted for historical reference purposes. Several people have written me thinking that I am totally endorsing this man’s quaint-sounding ideas! Of course I do not agree with everything the author claims, and I myself do not approach the subject of human origins in the debate style this man uses. I thought this was an interesting article reflecting on the long and tumultuous history of the creation-evolution controversy in the western world. I felt others might appreciate a view from 1925, regardless of their position on the issues. I have added at the bottom (4/19/02) another old article–from 1899–for historical purposes. See my web pages for what I myself believe–Lambert Dolphin.”

  45. Wade Says:

    Well J,

    Point taken