Life in the Duggar Family

Let’s return to the Duggar family, the God-fearing, Velveeta-loving fundies of Arkansas.

The effects of Velveeta

I’m continuing our exploration of the Duggar family web site for three reasons:
1. It’s funny.
2. It’s scary.
3. Too often, I just take a fundie email I receive and make fun of that. Those are written by fundies with an agenda. The Duggar web site is a glimpse into how a fundie family lives (albeit extreme even by fundie standards).

We last left off looking at their page called How do you make a household of 17 people run smoothly? We got through one whole paragraph last time. Let’s look at the rest of the article today.

Our daily routine begins with personal hygiene (get dressed, brush teeth, comb hair, etc…). Each older child has a younger buddy or two that they help. We eat breakfast & read Proverbs at 8:00a.m., then we ‘quick clean’ the house (older child & their buddy work together to clean their jurisdictions).

Every day the same thing! Reading Proverbs every day at breakfast sounds stifling. They should at least give the kids a break every now and then and let them read something else—like Chick Tracts!

Throughout the day we try to pickup as we go along, but naturally things tend toward disorder.

This is a perfect example of the second law of thermodynamics (increasing entropy). I’m a little surprised that the Duggars didn’t take this opportunity to attack evolution. Fundies frequently cite the second law as “proof” that evolution is impossible. They argue that evolution (increasing order) violates this law.

What their straw-grasping little brains fail to comprehend is that the second law is referring to the increase in entropy in a closed system. The fundies view the Earth as a closed system. What they overlook is that energy is entering the Earth in the form of sunlight. If you look at the Sun and Earth together as the closed system, then entropy is increasing big time. (For more about this topic, here’s one of many articles at the TalkOrigins archive.)

At 9:00a.m., the older children help their buddies with their studies in phonics, math, violin & piano (J-O-Y- Jesus first, Others second, & Yourself last!). Then the older children start their music & individual studies—math, English, spelling & typing.

Oh J-O-Y! Actually, the acronym they should use is L-O-R-D. (Looney Oppressive Religious Delusion)

We break for lunch at 12:00pm. Jill (age 13) prepares lunch & we all help cleanup.

Poor Jill! She has to make lunch for this horde all by herself? At least they don’t also stick her with the dishes.

At 1:30p.m. the little ones go down for naps (4 & under). Momma & older children are around the table at 2:00p.m. for Wisdom Booklet group studies—science, history, law, medicine.

From what I’ve been able to gather, Wisdom Booklets are booklets for fundie homeschooling. I’d love to see what passes for science in there. History probably cites the Bible for much of its content. Law is probably the thinnest pamphlet; fundies only need ten laws. Or maybe medicine is the thinnest pamphlet, consisting of only two words: “Pray hard!”

We work on one subject until we complete the study. We also review & memorize scripture, hymns & operational definitions of character qualities.

Sounds like they’ve got their own little madrasah going.

The children especially enjoy this because they make up motions to help with memorization.

One motion they might make is hands to their throats. “Help! I can’t breathe! Living here is suffocating me!”

At 4:00p.m., we break from group study to complete individual studies, otherwise this is free time.

Just don’t do anything that Jesus wouldn’t do.

We have dinner at 5:00p.m. Jana (Age 14) prepares dinner & everyone helps cleanup.

Now it’s Jana’s turn to be groomed into the perfect fundie wife. Quick! She’s running out of time! Fourteen is an old maid by Arkansas standards!

(Apologies to my Arkansas readers. Fourteen is only an old maid by Arkansas fundie standards, but that doesn’t read as well when you’re making a joke.)

We do another ‘quick clean’ of the house after dinner & then have free time.

The older boys go out to the barn for a circle jerk…

Some may still be finishing up music, seeing we have to take turns with one piano to 11 students!

I think you mean “…seeing as we have…”. I’m surprised that people who read a book that is mostly filler (“…begat… …begat… …begat… …begat… …begat… …begat…) would feel the need to chop words out of their sentences.

8:00p.m.is snack time.

Grape Kool-Aid anyone?

Then we get ready for bed (baths, brush teeth, pick out clothes for next day).

What’s to pick out? They all dress alike! Maybe they get to choose whether tomorrow they will dress like an Amish or a Mennonite.

9:00p.m. is Bible time with Daddy. This is probably our favorite time of day.

I know it would be my favorite!

Daddy reads the Bible & we discuss the passage together. We talk about the day & bring out points of how to apply what we have learned. We enjoy making up skits & acting out examples of right responses & wrong responses.

Gosh! That sure sounds like fun! It sure beats watching Desperate Housewives!

Often our little ones will fall asleep as Daddy begins Bible time…

Ahh! The Kool-Aid is beginning to work!

We have a master schedule of each family member’s responsibilities displayed on our dining room wall.

Their micromanagement of their children’s lives and thoughts knows no bounds.

For each month, we also have individual daily checklists which cover schoolwork, chores, music lessons, & personal hygiene.

Jimmy’s enema is scheduled for Wednesday at 3:00. Jill’s tampon change will occur on Thursday at 5:30…

These were designed by Daddy so we could see at a glance how each child is doing. These checklists enable us to keep our children accountable & also reward them accordingly.

And punish them accordingly, I’m sure.

We have goals, but then we have reality!

No, you’re fundies. You’re about as far removed from reality as possible.

We are learning to practice flexibility—Not setting our affections on ideas or plans which could be changed by God or others!

So what happens? God rings you up and asks you to block out three hours this afternoon?

Sometimes we have ‘Daddy Days’ when Daddy overrides the schedule and takes the children out for family time, a field trip or a service project.

I’m sure the field trips are to places like the local creationist museum.

We try to make each day fun. Everyday is an exciting adventure!

No. Your days sound like repetitive, stifling bores.

It’s a good thing I don’t believe in Hell. I’d be worried that my punishment for this snarky blog would be reincarnation into this family.

Update (August 8, 2007):

Most of you reading this are coming from various places around the web where the link to this article has been posted. I appreciate the additional traffic, and I respect the fact that many of you hold very different opinions than I do.

Many people have commented that they like the Duggars and/or don’t think I have any right to criticize them. Whether you like them is entirely your choice. I do have the right to criticize them, because they have gone public with their lifestyle.

I have written a more recent article that explains why families like this are a problem. I invite you to read it: The Duggars—Parasites of Science.

(BTW, they don’t pay any property tax on that giant house of theirs. They had it declared a church. You’re subsidizing their lifestyle.)

Update (August 8, 2008):

It has now been a year since I last updated this article, and a year-and-a-half since it was originally written. I have now closed off the comments for this article. I think most of what anybody can say about the Duggars has already been said (many times over) in the 326 comments below.

Many of you have arrived here by following a link from another site. This is not an anti-Duggar web site. The several Duggar articles here are just a tiny fraction of the 400+ articles that I’ve written about the issues of science, science education, and church/state separation. You are welcome to explore the rest of the site. And don’t forget to stop off at the home page to read the fresh stuff.

326 Responses to “Life in the Duggar Family”

  1. The Watcher Says:

    It’s a good thing I don’t believe in Hell. I’d be worried that my punishment for this snarky blog would be reincarnation into this family.

    I read your blog and laughed so much, I’d be sent to Hell too. Look for me, I’m the one changing your tampon.

  2. ericsan Says:

    With my luck I’d reincarnate as the tampon :(

  3. wasafan Says:

    They’re expecting a 17th child next month. Oh, joy!

  4. Amanda Says:

    Come on… seriously they are debt free… etc. etc.. sure they don’t get to run crazy bad ass kids lifestyles . I think they are awesome !

  5. AP Says:

    Have these people seen a black person? I wonder why the boys never cook…

  6. Unfundie Says:

    Just what kind of animal is that attached to Michelle’s head? Someone please line up the mom and girls and pass me a scissors!

  7. Chickie Says:

    That was hilarious – you’ve got to agree, however, that mommy has the best mullet EVER…

    My overall thought on the Duggars is that they scare me. A lot.

  8. Nana Says:

    This is the most hilarious stuff I’ve read in a long time…I’m at work and have been laughing out loud!!!Thanks you guys for making my night shift so much more fun…the Duggars…creepy, creepy, creepy!

  9. jennie Says:

    You need to find something bettter to do. You raise your kids your way; they raise their kids their way–let it go.

  10. jeannie Says:

    Michelle does wear some crazy colored lipstick at times.

    I wonder how god sends them the message that it’s time to have sex. After all, he’s deciding when and how many children they have.

    They really do scare me, though. Haven’t any of these kids broken an arm or gotten really sick? Do they have health insurance? Oh wait, god wouldn’t let anything bad happen to THEIR kids…..

  11. Maureen Says:

    So glad to see someone telling the REAL TRUTH about this family of robots.

    I suppose when the kids grow up, they’ll all build homes near their parents and raise droves of robots too [or is that rabbits?].

    Scary is right. And those clothes! Do these girls never went jeans or shorts? Do any of them ever have “impure thoughts”?

    Well, they are an amusing bunch anyway. Thanks for the laugh!

  12. Katie Says:

    It’s a good thing they are debt free but as someone wrote, they are kind of creepy. They all look as they’re stuck in the 80′s…. the clothes, the hair styles. Sooner or later the kids will go out in society to work and they probably will be riduculed for how they look. It doesn’t cost much more to buy second hand clothes that are new than second hand clothes from the 80′s! Also, the hairstyles…. guess the parents cut their kids’ hair… maybe they should look in a magazine.

  13. Chelty Says:

    Oh gosh, this was a good post! It’s a morbid fascination with this family. But I agree totally on hair and clothes- good grief. How about a little originality and independence (to go with the responsibility and education)? And why don’t they ever talk about the “religion” they follow other than just “God”? I’m curious what kind of religion supports their beliefs. Oofty. What a deal.

  14. M Says:

    The reason they don’t talk about “religion” MAY BE because they don’t follow “religion”, they follow God.

  15. Becca Says:

    I think the Duggar family is blessed by God, and I am praying for all those who read and believe the lies on this website that they will turn their hearts toward Jesus and quit believing the selfish humanist views that people fill their empty minds with when they are empty of any real beliefs or values. Life is precious, and people choose to live it in different ways. The Duggars choose to teach responsibility, teamwork, and relationship skills to their children, as well as a sound background in (like it or not) the TRUTH of God’s Word. May your hearts turn toward the love of Christ, and if not, may God have mercy on your souls.

  16. Nancy Jones Says:

    Even though 17 kids is way too many, I have to give these parents credit for raising them in a healthy and loving environment. What worries me is the kids’ ignorance of what is out there in “real life”. Another thing that bothers me is the Fundamentalist view that females must always wear a dress. This was accepted 100 years ago, but I find it foolish in today’s world. Those poor girls. Never have worn a pair of jeans because “God said so”??????

  17. Random Flamer Says:

    I don’t have a uterus, but ouch. Just ouch. The consumption and waste of these people must be obscene, not to mention the fact they are contributing to the over population of the world. Then again you will never see a Mexican family, and their thirty kids. So why not publicize these people.

    I feel sorry for the children the most, since they are being groomed into the perfect little house wives. Instead of having children, these people should be adopting.

  18. lee Says:

    I have a cousin who is having his 10th child in as many years with his wife of course…..

    its not my way, but I say, if you can do it, and do it well, which my cousin and his wife and the Duggars do, then go for it…

    they make up for all the idiotic people that hate children such as this so-called “writer”…..

    let me think……happy children, happy household, and living a sensible and frugal lifestyle….yep, definately trouble makers, those Duggars….

  19. HMuir Says:

    I happen to watch this family every time I get a chance. I think that the Duggars are awsome. You know people want to sit and critisize them for having 17 kids at least they are taking care of them with no assistance from welfare. People want to complain they should complain about the people who keep having kids and living on welfare. Those kids are very well rounded, educated and happy. The kids have friends and they go out and do things with other families why is that any different than what people with small families do? I by no means think these kids are deprived of anything, they have a mother and father who love them dearly a nice home enviroment to grow up in and thats more than I can say for alot kids.

  20. Chris Says:

    No tampons for Jill! Didn’t you know, they might ‘rob’ her of her virginity!!! I have a feeling the Duggar girls use the old style pads complete with belt.

  21. Sheila Says:

    I think they are odd to have sooooooooooo many kids!!!!!!!!!!!!! I do think that they are doing a wonderful job of raising them, however. Not many of us could do this, even if we had all the money we would need to survive so nicely. They do seem to have the answers on raising so many children. I have seen other shows, for instance the one where they have twins, then multiples. Her husband is oriental. Her kids seem whiney and spoiled. They are not as well-behaved as the Dugger kids. Most kids nowdays are spoiled and selfish with unruly behavior. They have done a good job, their kids are not spoiled and they don’t act out of control. We could all take a lesson from their discipline and guidence.
    I did notice that they bought a lot of expensive quick foods; like cans of name-brand chunky soups, and name-brand raisin bread. I would have thought they would do more cooking from scratch to save money, but their shelves are lined with already prepared canned foods.

  22. Kay Says:

    It’s their life & their business. The Duggar Family seems to be a wonderful, Christian family, they can handle it. What amazes me is that they are debt free, now they know how to manage their money. Not everyone could do what they do & not everyone would want to. God bless the Duggar Family.

  23. Kay Says:

    I was born & raised in Arkansas (and wouldn’t live anywhere else & yes, I have lived in other states) Anyway, I don’t appreciate the little negative comment about Arkansas’s fundie standards….It wasn’t really that funny! What makes you think that you know some much about it? Do you live in Arkansas?

  24. Stephanie Says:

    I come from a family of 11 where I am the next to the youngest. We had our rough times, yes, but I wouldn’t have wanted it any other way. I like the Duggar family and think it is great that the have been blessed by God with so many children. It is the times of struggling that we are made stronger by the power of God.

    If you want to be angry with someone for over populating the world, be angry with the devil for his part in the demise of the family unit and then tell parents to teach their children good moral values and to know where their kids are at all times. In other words raise your kids in the admiration of the Lord, teaching them right from wrong.

    Just becuse this family is doing a good thing and living by God’s standards and not the world’s standards, is no reason to go off on them at any level. Some of your commits could be considered sexist and perverted.

  25. Michelle D. Says:

    Thanks to everyone who supports our family and my hair-do. God told me to wear hair wings on the sides of my head so that it amplifies the messages I recieve from God to my ears.

    God is good… can’t wait to have number 1,936,483!!!

    Oh, and with number 17 here, it’s hard to have intimate time with Jim Bob. So from now on, he will use THE FORCE to impregnate me.

  26. Stephanie Says:

    Go Michelle! You are a wonderul person! Tell your family Hello from me!.

  27. Bob Says:

    So tell me again , what it is that scares you about this family? HMM is it the fact they believe in God? About 95 % of families are danegrous that way. Or maybe because they have had a lot of sex. You seem bothered bya husband and wife that still want each other. Pretty dangerous to have acouple like that runninga round. Or is it the moral standards they are forcing the kids to learn. OOh the thought of a generation of adults going out there spreading morals and fidelity and family relationships, is truly frightening. What would the world come to if everybody decided to be debt free? EEEK ! It would be less scary if this were a dysfunctional , single parent home with at least one drug addict running around the neighborhood. God save us from families that love each other! And horror of horrors love you!

  28. Michelle's uterus Says:

    Hi,

    This is Michelle’s uterus. Just want to let eveyone know I’m doing OK. I’m trying to get myself in shape before Jim Bob shoves his thingy in my friend, Vagina, again. He’s such a sex hound. Vagina and I actually find him quite hideous.

    Please say prayers for Vagina and myself that we survive. Your support is apprecaited.

  29. Just Little Ole Me Says:

    For those who think the Duggar lifestyle is so admirable because they are debt free.

    Let’s look at why.

    They are pimping their children out to be ogled as a kind of vaudeville freak show to the major networks and reporters. You think they are doing that for free?

    You think those kids don’t know they look different from the rest of the world? Think again.

    Been there, done that. They are damn well aware of how they look and I’m guessing they feel every part the freak their parents are selling them as.

    I thank my heaven that my parents at least had the gumption to keep our lives private while forcing us through Gothardism. It was horrific enough to have to leave the house looking like an extra in Little House on the Prairie. I just can’t fathom being broadcast around the globe looking like that.

    You are applauding their lifestyle as Godly? As Michelle as being able to handle things? Laughable. These folks have sold their souls to Gothard and the ATIA/Quiverful crowd.

    As for Michelle handling, not so much. She just passes off her children to be raised by a sibling.

    So go on with your bad selves, applauding this family. There are those of us who have walked a mile in the Duggar kids shoes who wait for the day that they too will be free from Gothard’s control.

  30. Free the Duggar kids Says:

    As for Michelle handling, not so much. She just passes off her children to be raised by a sibling.

    Couldn’t agree with you more on the above quote!!!! And I think I’d have some $$ too if I sold my kids’ souls to TLC too!!

  31. Just Little Ole Me Says:

    Blog owner, if you dont mind, I would like to offer a website for those who are exiting the lifestyle of the Duggars-Gothard/ATIA/IBLP to go to to decompress.

    http://xatiguy.blogspot.com/

    This isnt my blog but I recommend it for people who want to see deeper inside the Duggars lifestyle.

    There is so much more than what you see on TV and although Xers site is satire, there is much truth/reality to be found there.

    Good luck, my friends. Life is much richer on the outside than within the confines of paint by numbers lifestyle of Gothardism.

  32. Becky Says:

    The person who came up with this website is a complete idiot!! I would love to see their point of view (and believe me I’ve tried!!!), but I can’t get my head THAT far up my ass!!! Try getting a life instead of ridiculing the way others live theirs!!!!

  33. DJ Says:

    Looks like we got a war going on here. The losing side is doing the yelling because they’re too selfish to have 17 kids of their own to combat the fundies. Guess what, the only way to win over this fundie family is to lie, flame & stomp them with your drag queen heels.

    This blog reads like a list of hate crimes (oh – oops – I forgot, the fundies are the ones who commit hate crimes)

  34. Gia Says:

    Since they’ve sold their kids for money, they’re just as greedy as every one elese.

    Nice that they don’t pay property taxes too. I don’t get why this backwards family gets any publicity. But then again it’s about the $$ for these people.

  35. Willa Deen Patterson Says:

    I admire you for letting God have his way with your family. I am 5th daughter of (11) eleven children , we had great love and togetherness amoung all , (7) girls and (4) boys, God forbid anyone who speaks against us or you,Psalms says children is an heritage from the lord, and blessed is the man who has his quiver full of them, that means his household.

  36. Just Little Ole Me Says:

    Actually, DJ, the only war being waged here is by the Quiverfullers who reproduce in large quantities because they are ‘building an army for God.”

    Not about loving having lots of children around. It’s about building that army to take over the world and rid of all those pesky sinners/heathens/non-Gothardite/Quiverful/xstian/liberal etc etc folks.

  37. Stephanie Says:

    No, I think it was DJ who started the site cause he has nothing bettter to do, it seems that gripe about a family who is living for God and doing a good job of it. Of cousre they aren’t perfect . . . they haven’t claimed to be.

    If you people that are so outraged that she has had so many kids would read the Bible and find Salvation for yourself you just might begin to understand how people who truely love God can be happy with what he has given us.

  38. marietta Says:

    I wonder how they support all these children? How can they be debt free? Income tax time must be a blast with all those dependet children. I want to know what there bills are, how much do they pay for food a week? And those vacations who paid for those? Who is going to pay for the kids college tutions? They really look like a fake false family where no one is an indivaul. No one has a part time job? No outside activites away from mom and dad and each other. Wow, I think someone needs to step in and find out the truth not just what they want you to see..

  39. Barbara Says:

    I, too, am oddly fascinated in a repulsed way whenever a Duggar family special airs. I love their website, especially their delicious recipes…yummy! There are 27 recipes in all and the total number of fresh fruit and vegetables required to make them all consists of 4 onions ( one of which can be replaced by a T. of onion powder ), some garlic cloves, a head of lettuce, pickle cucumbers and some apples and 2 lemons for a drink they make.

    I wonder if GOD will protect them from hypertension and diabetes.

    Whenever I think of Michelle getting pregnant again an image of a Smart Car entering the Lincoln Tunnel comes to mind.

  40. lee Says:

    i guess god tells themwhen to have sex because jim bob’s weiner is pointing to heaven.

    my mom became a mormon- which is basically fundie with more household help- and i wasn’t sure what to wear to her baptism, so i just took a cue from michelle and wore a denim jumper. no one guessed i was a pagan heathen.

    the higher the bangs, the closer to god. plus maybe no one will focus on your crazy eyes.

    i doubt the girls are even allowed to wear kotex and sanitary belts, as they may be considered too secular. they probably just use rags from their worn recycled clothes, or maybe the whole family makes homemade pads as an “arts-N-crafts” project for their homeschool program. i would hate to use a plaid sanitary pad.

    i wonder if michelle had even had a period since she got married, as she stays pregnant or breastfeeding all the time. maybe god will smite jim bob’s jimmy with a lightning bolt and render it infertile.

  41. Sandeana Says:

    I actually love the long hair on the girls in this family. But the long hair aside, why is this family even newsworthy? Just because they have a lot of kids? So do a lot of other families. The main thing wrong with this family is that these kids are not enrolled in regulated school, and are not gatting a complete or an adequate education. The authorities should become involved at this point, and force these ignoramus parents to enroll their kids in a regulated school, as is required by law.

    They need to get high school diplomas, so they can get decent jobs in the future. These children are probably many, many years behind their grade levels, as what probably happens to a lot of these kids that have “playschool” with their parents every day.

  42. Jennifer aka Ignoramus Parent Says:

    Sandeana said –

    The main thing wrong with this family is that these kids are not enrolled in regulated school, and are not gatting a complete or an adequate education. The authorities should become involved at this point, and force these ignoramus parents to enroll their kids in a regulated school, as is required by law.

    They need to get high school diplomas, so they can get decent jobs in the future. These children are probably many, many years behind their grade levels, as what probably happens to a lot of these kids that have “playschool” with their parents every day.

    Looks like someone doesn’t know the law… homeschooling is legal in all 50 states of the Union… albeit with different regulations and requirements in each state.

    And the last time I checked, a high school “diploma” does little to guarantee a “decent job in the future.” I’m sure the Duggars are “gatting a complete or an adequate education.”

    Although we do not use ATI to educate our children, I am quite proud to count myself among other “ignoramus parents” having “play school” with their children every day… children who, statistically, are years ahead of their traditionally-educated counterparts.

    Ignorance is never a valid argument… especially when coupled with arrogance.

  43. Brian Says:

    As gut-bustingly hilarious as this was, let’s not forget the tragic situation these kids are in. Sure, they’re clean-cut, obedient, well-scrubbed, and able to recite any Bible verse on command. However, real life is not like that at all. If any of these 17 kids ever escape the Christian bubble their parents have maniacally built up around them, they will have a very rough go of it. But what really sets me off about these parents is the cruel repression of each child’s curiosity. These kids are no more “Christian children” than they are “Republican children”. They are the unfortunate children of wildly zealous Christian parents. They will never go out and look at the night sky and marvel at the universe as it is. They will never know the thrill of learning how ancient, wondrous and complex life on this planet is. Worst of all, they will never have the opportunity to think for themselves, and decide if this Jesus thing is worth believing in or not. If there really was something to Christianity, why insulate you kids from the rest of the world? Won’t God’s word get through to them no matter what? These people have to be some of the most insecure Christians in the world.

  44. MaryLynn Says:

    What a bunch of ignorant idiots commenting here. The author is even worse.

  45. Ron Britton Says:

    Thank you for your non-idiotic comment.

  46. MARY Says:

    The older children seem pretty defensive when the softball questions hit a nerve. And when asked about individuality, the younger ones report that they have varied food preferences!! I think it’s a disservice to these children to keep them shielded from the world, where you need to appreciate real differences in real people.

  47. Nancy Coleman Says:

    With their 20 acres, perhaps the Duggars now will buy a plow and teach the children to grow some fresh vegetables, build a chicken coop and have free-range chicken/eggs, fence some pasture for milk cows, raise some rabbits for meat… The possibilities are endless. Horses/ponies to provide fun and fertilizer would be nice.

    Oh, and when the kids are old enough to fly the coop (ever?) they can build a house near mommy and daddy and raise 18 more Duggar rats.

    Do the math: if all the kids emulate the parents… 324 grandchildren will overrun the place.

    I hope to live long enough to see how the kids turn out. Betcha lots of ‘em have one or two kids. Period.

    I also want to see how they define 18 more houses as churches.

  48. Heidi in Utah Says:

    Hey, why all the hostility here? These people are enjoying the freedoms that all Americans are born with: to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They have a right to procreate–or not–and they have the right to worship as they choose.

    They’re rearing respectful, polite children who seem to have good values, although I’m sure more than one of them will “stray” from their parents’ vision of Christianity. They seem bright and well-spoken, practical and unspoiled. As a mother of five, I’d love to be able to say that about my children, hard as I try to impart these values to them.

    The only things I see “wrong” or “creepy” here are that they had their home declared to be a church, thus evading property taxes (wish I could do that, but I’m not rigid in my Christianity). Also, I wonder where old Jim-Bob’s concern for his wife’s health and body are; surely she must be suffering bodily harm and a shortened life span for having carried so many infants to term. Otherwise, these are people who are self-reliant, not on welfare; nor are the older kids in jail/pregnant/using drugs. I’m sure they do think for themselves and have individuality, as all humans do, but it’s a bit hampered by their upbringing. What’s so unusual about that? I can say that’s true for everyone I know, including myself, until they leave the nest and start living in a world that’s not so insular.

    Until then, they are lucky to be well provided for, to be loved, and to have a strong family unit. I hope it serves them well. Everybody else should just leave these people alone. You’re criticizing them because of haircuts? They’re probably saving money (Yikes!) by cutting the kids’ hair themselves…part of their plan to stay on a budget. Even the U.S. Government can’t stay on a budget, so how about keeping the nastiness level down when considering how the Duggars live? It’s not my kind of lifestyle, but they have a right to live it if it’s their kind. Remember, this is America, not China.

    These kids will be fine. The fact that the Learning Channel has paid them some kind of royalty for the rights to their story is also very American. They haven’t sold their kids’ souls; they’ve probably just received enough of a fee for their story so that they can send their kids to college without going into debt. Why are you people so full of hate?

    I’m a generic, informal Christian who has plenty of faults, but I live in the heart of Mormon country, not 50 miles from the “crazy Mormons” (fundie LDS pederasts who believe in marrying multiple 14-year-old cousins and sisters). The Mormons and my family get along fine…live and let live. The real outrage you writers should be showing is toward Warren Jeffs and the child-molesting, marriage-arranging polygamists who DO live off the government thanks to their multiple illegal wives who can claim food stamps and unemployment, and who are armed to the teeth living in high-walled compounds in Colorado City and St. George, Utah. These are the ones breaking the law and raising children in a Hell on Earth under the guise of religion. Where’s the FBI or the Utah and Arizona State Police when you need them?

    Leave the Duggars alone. Exercise your American right to change the channel or, better yet, turn off the TV.

  49. Ron Britton Says:

    Heidi:

    There’s no hate here. We’re just exercising our right to express our opinions about something going on in the world. The Duggars have made themselves public figures by going on the Discovery Health Channel, so they have to expect that people will have a reaction to what we see.

    The Duggars also are consuming a massive amount of natural resources and contributing to the overpopulation problem of the planet. A little personal responsibility and restraint would have been welcome here. It’s not all about Jim Bob and his selfish urge to cover the planet with his spawn.

    You make a good point about Warren Jeffs. His people are the radical version of the Duggars.

  50. Nancy Says:

    I do not agree with most of you.

    I come from a large family and I have 15 children. As the Duggar’s, we run a tight ship. I do not think we look odd. We girls love our long hair and the way our family dresses.

    We get compliments from people all the time. People tell us how polite and well mannered our children are. They are not selfish, or ill mannered. We look to the Lord for a way of life.

    We do not feel that we have missed any thing GOOD this world has to offer and we do not think that we have to try every thing that the world has too offer( liike babies before marriage, drugs, whorish clothes, bad manners, or living off wellfare. In my point of view….we are not missing a thing.

    We also home school….. because if you want your children to fly like Eagles… you do not put them into a pen of turkeys each day.

    A Big YES… for the Duggars and other large families. It is good to look to the lord and his ways.

  51. Tammy Says:

    It sad you have nothing better to do than to poke fun at something you obviously have no comprehension of. I wonder if there is not a need to “belittle” the Duggars in order to somehow make yourself feel better about your life. One thing is for sure they are a blessed family and are living a life that is pure and clean. Most of the people who have left negative comments don’t have a clue what they are talking about…the boys do help cook, probably the book of Proverbs is read one chapter each day…it’s a wonderful concept. There just happens to be 31 chapters in Proverbs, one for each day of the month and every now and again you get 2 for one. If you had ever taken the time to read it, you might understand the importance it plays in the life of a Christian family, also something else you do not understand. Therefore I am praying for you and all your blogger friends that you might see the “LIGHT” before it is to late. After all if you are right and all of us Chrisitans are wrong, we have nothing to lose. But since we are right, you my friend my face an eternity in Hell. I pray not. Until then why don’t you blog something you understand.

  52. Ron Britton Says:

    Tammy:

    It sad you have nothing better to do than to poke fun at something you obviously have no comprehension of.

    You are correct. How anybody could be so religiously constipated to live a life like that is completely beyond my comprehension. It’s sad that those kids have to grow up in that environment and be brainwashed like that.

    I wonder if there is not a need to “belittle” the Duggars in order to somehow make yourself feel better about your life.

    Nope. My life is fine. How’s yours? You’re feeling threatened by this article, which means it cuts too close to home. What’s wrong with your apparently wonderful life that an article like this scares you? Why is your faith so shaky that this article can upset you?

    One thing is for sure they are a blessed family and are living a life that is pure and clean.

    I don’t know how you defined “blessed” or “pure and clean”. It’s a stifling, controlling, nightmare environment. Cursed maybe, but not blessed.

    the boys do help cook

    Not according to these articles. If you have additional information, please share it. What is the source of your knowledge?

    probably the book of Proverbs is read one chapter each day…

    “Probably” nothing! It is! Check out this article.

    it’s a wonderful concept. There just happens to be 31 chapters in Proverbs, one for each day of the month and every now and again you get 2 for one.

    Actually, it’s a horrible concept, as that article I just referenced indicates.

    If you had ever taken the time to read it, you might understand the importance it plays in the life of a Christian family, also something else you do not understand.

    I did read it. See above.

    Therefore I am praying for you and all your blogger friends that you might see the “LIGHT” before it is to late.

    Pray all you want. You’re praying to a false deity. (They’re all false!)

    After all if you are right and all of us Chrisitans are wrong, we have nothing to lose. But since we are right, you my friend my face an eternity in Hell.

    Why do you Christians always fall back on Pascal’s Wager, like it’s some sort of magical trump card? It’s bad logic at best. It has been debunked up, down, left, right, and sideways.

    Until then why don’t you blog something you understand.

    I probably understand your religion far better than you do.

  53. Barbara Says:

    For Nancy

    I come from a large family and I have 15 children.

    I am sorry. Sorry that you have to add to the population crisis in this world and, if you had them naturally, sorry that you chose to do this to your body.

    As the Duggar’s, we run a tight ship. I do not think we look odd. We girls love our long hair and the way our family dresses.

    If you’ve had 15 kids, you’re no girl. You are a WOMAN. Odds are, out of 16 of you, someone would prefer to wear something other than the latest from the House of Laura Ingalls. And if you dress like the Dugger “girls” ..um yeah, you look odd.

    We get compliments from people all the time. People tell us how polite and well mannered our children are.

    Of course they are polite. If you run a Duggaresque household, they know no better than to act like little robots. That could be the preservatives too if you subscribe to the organic-free lifestyle the Duggers do.

    They are not selfish, or ill mannered. We look to the Lord for a way of life.

    He didn’t have 15 homeschooled little robots. He wasn’t even married, and wasn’t he an only child?

    We do not feel that we have missed any thing GOOD this world has to offer and we do not think that we have to try every thing that the world has too offer( liike babies before marriage, drugs, whorish clothes, bad manners, or living off wellfare. In my point of view….we are not missing a thing.

    Typical fundie. Everything secular must be the absolute worst. Proud non-believer here. Never had a kid out of wedlock, dress fairly conservatively ( but do cut/color my hair and stopped wearing jumpers when I was 8 and feathering my bangs in the 80′s ), am quite polite and have never been on welfare. Never been on drugs either. Wait–what the hell is wrong with me? I have traveled to 15 countries, lived in two, lived in 8 parts of the US, gone to college, have a career, interests and hobbies. I don’t hide in my house or behind some religious crutch. I think I’ve missed less.

    We also home school….. because if you want your children to fly like Eagles… you do not put them into a pen of turkeys each day.

    Send my kids to wonderful charter school since I work and can’t homeschool them. Silly me, I think a little influence outside of the family, interaction with other children and adults and some diversity is a GOOD thing.

    A Big YES… for the Duggars and other large families. It is good to look to the lord and his ways.

    Yes! Continue to rape the earth of its precious resources, raise little fundies and multiply. Oh, and I adopted my kids so they would not have to grow up in an orphanage. Seemed kinda right to do that.

  54. Siannon Birch Says:

    I’m happily waiting to see if one of the Duggar prisoners—these kids are hostages—waiting for one to snap and slaughter the whole family.

  55. Anna Says:

    Some people are on here defending the Duggars, and I have to ask…what’s wrong with you? You’re saying that the Duggars are well-adjusted, well-mannered, well-rounded kids. And I ask how they can be well-rounded when Jim Bob and Michelle are the only people they ever see? How can you experience life if you haven’t got any REAL contact with the outside world? They’re not having a family; they’re BREEDING. There’s a huge difference; having a family requires doing things NOT together, having separate lives and being interested in each others lives and supporting each other. Not moving from activity to activity with a group of your brothers and sisters. What about friends?!? The only friends they could have are each other! I can imagine someone who knew the family going “Which one are you again??” Seriously….they’re making clones of themselves; upstanding, bible-thumping conservatives to overrun the world.

    Yay, that’s just what we need.

    Why didn’t they adopt? I mean, I want a large-ish family, maybe six kids. I want to adopt at least three. The world is overpopulated; lets NOT contribute! I’m one of three; two adopted, and we’re not LESS of siblings than these poor kids.
    And another thing; the J-names. Could there BE a worse idea? I mean damn, why don’t we just call all the girls Michelle and all the boys Jim Bob? Then you could at least remember their names! You know ever kid was standing around that hospital bed when baby 17, Jennifer Danielle, was born going “Oh, fuck, I have to learn another name….we’ll have to incorporate her name into the rhyme we use to remember who the hell everyone is!”

    The Duggars are not people to be praised for being the dicatators of their household.

  56. david Says:

    These two people are irresponsible in every sense of the word. People carry on about how THEY are doing fine raising these kids when the bottom line is it’s THE KIDS who are raising the kids. They are forced to play parent, teacher, cook, and maid. So NO, the parents are NOT fully capable of raising this herd of children. They have forced their children to raise THEIR offspring.

    I read a comment elsewhere which I find myself agreeing with. They are addicted to babies!! They’re like the crazy cat lady down the street (we all have one living nearby right?) Awwwwww babies are so cute!! But hey they grow up!! No problem we’ll just create another one and another one and another……. The crazy cat lady is much the same. She gets one kitten and Awwwwwww it was so cute then it grew up! OK, get another kittten, then another and another. The difference being the cats aren’t forced to play parent, teacher, and maid to all the litter mates.

    Don’t even get me started on the way they look or the way they pimp out their kids to the media. Also there’s a tidbit floating around that they “blanket train”. The person making the statement seems to actually know the Duggars far more than what the media represents—

    They also practice blanket training. Know what that is? It means placing a baby on a blanket and then hitting all around the edge of the blanket with a wooden spoon or a stick as a threat to the baby not to get off the blanket. If the baby tries to crawl off, and it does, baby gets a couple whacks (usually on the back of the legs).

    Once baby is “trained”, then Mom can leave it there while she talks with others.

    Oh, Mrs. Duggar has also put her kids down for a nap in their carseats, so she wouldn’t have to have visits with her friends shortened by the children’s naps. An older daughter is then in charge of watching the children in their family bus while Mom contentedly chats with friends—

    Gee how loving!

    Anyway I find these people repulsive and abusive in the fact they are forcng their kids to live like robots, learn nothing about being individuals (everyone is J Duggar but mom), and I’m guessing as each one grows older they are secretly yearning to run as fast as they can to get some peace and quiet!!

  57. Brian Says:

    Tammy,

    You said, “Most of the people who have left negative comments don’t have a clue what they are talking about”. I really hope you are reading this.

    As it turns out, I do know what I am talking about, and by quite a bit more than you are willing to admit. So let’s get straight to it, shall we?

    I have no doubt that you believe that acceptance of Jesus is not just the only way to attain eternal life but also the surest path to living a moral life. I am certain that you think we are all sinners, and that none of us has any choice in the matter. Furthermore, it is this sin we are born with that Jesus died to atone for, on behalf of all of us. Am I right so far? I’m sure I am.

    This sin was, according to the Bible, a result of Eve’s disobedience in the Garden of Eden. We’ve been on a downhill slide ever since, haven’t we, Tammy? Now, getting back to Jesus, the “son of God”. As I understand it, Jesus is God, and God is Jesus, but one’s the father and one’s the son, correct? Perhaps this logical fallacy satisfies you, but my standards are somewhat higher.

    So, the dilemma God faces is this: his creation has gotten out of hand. Time to take us behind his divine woodshed. He floods the earth, killing all the dinosaurs that Noah didn’t take onto the ark (and suspiciously depositing them into the fossil record way before any primates). But, man being man, we still suck. Plagues, genocides, and other mass killings just aren’t getting it done for God. This sin thing is really putting his panties in a wad. Then inspiration strikes: God will go to earth to live as a mortal, and show us how to behave. Then, God will arrange to have himself/Jesus killed brutally, to pay off a sin debt, owed to himself, on behalf of everyone, but only those who accept Jesus/God get to hang out for all eternity in heaven and worship God/Jesus. Everyone else, sadly, will be forced to burn forever in hell, because God loves you!

    Now, Tammy, if God really existed, and he really did love us and wanted all of us to be in heaven with him, couldn’t he have come up with a better sales pitch than this? Nigerian money transfer schemes make more sense than this. Why not simply exert a teensy-weensy fraction of that omnipotence of his and show us all he’s real? If our eternal well-being was so important to him, isn’t it worth it? Is that really asking for too much?

    I consider myself an educated person, and because I took the time and trouble to dispassionately consider the claims Christianity insists I accept unquestioningly, I have found them to be lacking all credibility. I have no axe to grind, just a passion for reason. Given sufficient evidence I would gladly regard Christianity as a valid description of how the universe works. Deep down I suspect that you know your beliefs can’t withstand even a cursory examination, but being unable to admit that, you flail about with incoherent arguments about seeing the “LIGHT” or disparaging those of us with the wit to see this sham for what it is.

    Bertrand Russell was once asked what he would say to God if, perchance, he was asked by the deity why he didn’t believe in him. “Not enough evidence, God. Not enough evidence”, was his reply. As Ron Britton has already pointed out to you, Pascal’s Wager is an exceedingly poor argument for God’s existence. But I’ll play your game. If, upon my death, I find myself confronted by the creator of the universe about my atheistic life, I think that such a being would have a higher regard for intellectual honesty than for the existential bet-hedging you closed your comment with.

    Live your life however you choose. I presume you are an adult, and such choices are rightly yours to make. Children, however, are incapable of contemplating the philosophical and theological arguments surrounding the subject of religion. Their natural curiosity about the world is taken advantage of by ignorant dopes like the Duggars, who think filling their kids’ heads with biblical bunk is the best way to raise them. Sure, they’re unfailingly polite and impeccably groomed, but their minds are not their own. They become slaves to the religion of their parents, and will undoubtedly impose this nonsense on their own offspring in due time. So please so not assume that I do not understand Christianity. I understand it all too well, which is why I reject it.

  58. Adele G. Says:

    I, too, am astonished at the fact that these two individuals can raise a family of 17!!! However, I have never heard them raise a voice or threaten their children in any manner, and they are the most well-behaved children I have ever seen. I will never have this many children, but everyone must admit that raising 17 children debt free is an incredible fate. I do admire the Duggars and wish them well.
    As for all of you who say “The Duggars also are consuming a massive amount of natural resources and contributing to the overpopulation problem of the planet. A little personal responsibility and restraint would have been welcome here. It’s not all about Jim Bob and his selfish urge to cover the planet with his spawn, ” what kind of car do you drive? Do you recycle? Do you have energy efficient light bulbs in your home, ARE YOU PERFECT????!!!! Honestly, every person has his/her issues, however, I would much rather have the Duggars, who live debt free NOT ON PUBLIC ASSISTANCE on our planet than the many individuals on welfare AND who do not recycle or care for our environment… COME ON PEOPLE, the Duggars are good people who are simply trying to raise a family!!! AND GET THIS:::: I am JEWISH… not Christian, and I STILL believe in the Duggar Family Values… GO FIGURE!!!! Great people, yes, they are. So they do TV shows to pay the bills… at least they are not contributing to our incredible welfare crap!!! GO DUGGARS!!! THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR STORY WITH THE WORLD!!!

  59. Brian Says:

    Adele G.,
    I thought I had said all I needed to say on this thread, and then you came along with your Caps Lock-laden missive, forcing me to stay up later than I should. Thanks a lot.

    You hold the Duggars in high regard, particularly because they aren’t on welfare. While I’ll agree with you that they were cunning enough to land a TV show to pay the bills and thus not require sinful public assistance, I have to wonder about the contempt you evidently have for those who are less fortunate than yourself. I do not wish to defend those who do abuse the system. Again, you and I share some common ground. However, the stereotype in your head is incorrect. I’ve known people in that situation, and they were most definitely not enjoying it, only trying very hard to work their way out of it. I suppose you feel that those unlucky enough to find themselves wondering how they’ll feed their kids the next day are an intolerable burden on upstanding, wealthier citizens like yourself.

    I think you are also missing the larger point being made here by myself and others. The number of kids these people are having is ridiculous, but what is truly troubling is the religious dictatorship these poor children must endure. I take issue with your view that these children are not threatened. Sorry, if a parent tells a child that if they don’t believe in God and organize the entirety of their life around that belief they will burn forever in hell, that’s a threat. Worse, I think its a form of child abuse. You don’t have to physically injure a child to be abusive. Emotional and psychological abuse is in many ways much worse. To stifle the curiosity of children when their minds are inquisitive, to extinguish that intellectual fire that burns brightly at a young age is nothing if not vile, reprehensible behavior by these parents. I absolutely love how my kids constantly ask me why something is the way it is, or how something works, especially when I don’t know the answer, so we’ll all learn together. A parent ought to be able to teach their kids how to think for themselves, to examine information and evidence, and make informed decisions on their own. The Duggars, in contrast, seem intent to not only cover the planet with their spawn but also create as many religious robots as they can.

    There’s much more to being a good parent than simply raising clean-cut, well-mannered kids who grow up wealthy enough to stay off welfare. I would humbly submit to you that, given the many problems in the world, it is far more important that our children become freethinkers able to see things as they really are, and not be burdened with dopey, mind-numbing theological nonsense. People today are more religious than ever, and look at how frakked up things are. If your concern for the environment is genuine, like mine, perhaps our children need to be smarter than us, since the future belongs to them.

  60. Brandy Says:

    To AP: The boys never cook because God requires the women to be busy at home, and the men to work for a living.

  61. michelle Says:

    Good glory – do you have nothing better to do with your time than pick on this family? Its not their problem that you find their lives stifling. I’m thinking why am I even wasting my time on this. What it comes down to is that you understand nothing of the Spirit of God and until you do, you will never see the immense blessing that comes with living in the Spirit.

    I will say I will be having as many children as the Lord allows, raising them in the Spirit and admonition of the Lord. And they will be raised “fundie” thank you very much…

  62. Barbara Says:

    Great googlie mooglie,

    Actually, it is their fault that their lives are stifling. They lead stifling lives. I am not sure why you are wasting your time either, but if you’re like Michelle D., you have a lot of free time. If you aren’t with your husband ( in the biblical sense ) or in the delivery room poppin’ out another mouth to feed ( I’ll name this one Jester! ) , then one of your kids is making dinner ( mmmmm open up some Hamburger Helper, Jemima!) , another is watching your latest spawn ( stay on the blanket, Jehosephat ) , homeschool is done for the day and daddy’s not home yet to read Proverbs.

    Have a fundie day :) !

  63. Stephanie Says:

    John 8:7, says, “…He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” And in Matthew 7:3, it says, ” And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”

    Here is a couple of Bible verses for those of you who seem against those of us who chose to live in Christ and not be conformed to this world. Being a Christian does not mean we are perfect, it does mean that we have made a choice to live according to the perfect will of God. It is His will that is perfect, not humans.

    God will meet us where we are (which is in our sin what ever it is); we are not expected to stay there (in our sin).

    I would rather live my life as though God is real (and he is), then die and find out he is not; than to live my life as though he was not real and die to find out He is real! Because, if you would chose the later you have no more chances to change your life!

    Blessings to those who hear and believe with child like faith . . .

  64. Barbara Says:

    See you type all of that and what I see is ” bla bla bla bla bla bla bla ” as you regurgitate that which you’ve heard on Sunday when the preacher man spews his crap from the pulpit. What does any of that mean?

    Speaking of stones, I’ll leave you with one of my faves from Ole King James…

    “Happy shall he be who taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” :) Psalms 137:9

  65. Mary Says:

    These people are just plain creepy. Raising 17 Stepford children who don’t have an original thought.

    I want the real truth about them. And believe me it is hard to find. Where does the money come from to feed this brood and take vacations and why isn’t Dad at work ever! Whats the deal. I read somewhere that Mom and Dad are shills for some shyster selling a Get Rich Quick Scheme but that can’t possibly be enough. I think about my grocery bill for 2, yikes.

    And I agree with the poster talking about the fresh food blah blah blah. Tater tots, can creamed soup and evaporated milk. Good god just have them each swallow a stick of butter.

    Never heard of Quiverfull until I started looking for info on this family but thank goodness it isn’t a raging movement or the earth would explode from over population. Duggar website claims the need for all these children is to atone for talking birth control and selfishly trying to control when they would have a baby. Who believes this drivel, please.

    These are two smart cookies that had a few kids then said, Hey we can make some money off this and not have to work and the kids we already have will do all the work and we can just keep making babies, yahoo.

  66. Troy Says:

    I’d watch if one of the middle girls became a freethinker/lesbian/goth type. Incredible hilarity would ensue.

    I don’t see how their home is a church. These people should have to pay property taxes just like everyone else. On the other side of things their kids don’t use the services of the local schools, but they are still parasites.

  67. Monkeypaws Says:

    Ok… so. I agree with many points made on this page. It isn’t right, in this already overpopulated, to have so many kids. Yes, the Duggars do quite a job keeping everyone under control, but religious brainwashing can only take you so far. Let’s see what happens when rebellion kicks in. (Oh please, let rebellion kick in.) I also agree that chic hairstyles are just as easy to create and maintain as those godawful mops, but don’t judge their clothes… they make them by hand! (poor kids) Those of you, however, who feel the need to bring religion into your arguments should get a clue. Religious though the Duggars may be, they are as shameless as any celebrities who choose to trot out their personal lives for the world to see. Telling opponents of their views to “turn towards Christ” or what-have-you is not a valid argument. Those of you from large families who want to defend the lifestyle, well good on you, but keep religion out of it. It is human nature to be different and to question differences, and when VERY different people make their lives public spectacles, it is perfectly reasonable for others to judge. I’m sorry if the very religious don’t believe in human nature, but then again, they also don’t believe in evolution. (guess all that scientific proof is a sham!) Finally, everyone out there who wants to be taken seriously, no matter what your opinion is, try spellcheck!

  68. Emm Says:

    As the children sign up for one on one time with mommy, the husband is for sure checking the attention schedule to see when he can get himself another piece of Michele’s ass and create yet another child!!!!! Little tip for Jim Bob, try to control your burning passions and keep it in your pants.

    What is he trying to do here anyway? Is he playing god in repopulating the Earth with “righteous” in his own “image”? Will we all wear ugly dresses, breed like rabbits, and have tacky hairdos from the 80′s as the Duggars are a hankerin for us to do? Duggars, stop having all these kids then raising them into little kidbots. Friendless, educationless, childhoodless kidbots!

  69. Nicole Says:

    I love the Dugger Family and have one thing to say to them, stay sweet and never forget where you came from because you’re blessed to have such a big family who cares about you so much!

  70. Raegin Says:

    People, don’t even start bringing the Gosselins into this!Their kids are not spoiled, and three year olds are a whiney age group, theres six of them!It’s probably alot harder for them too since they can’t just pass them off to be raised by a sibling, unlike the Duggars case. Leave the Gosselins out of this!They are a wonderful family!

  71. Alecsandra Says:

    Well, I guess that whole J.O.Y. thing explains why they don’t care what they look like, AT ALL

  72. Terri Gardner Says:

    I just to comment to all those that although you may have your own opinion about this amazing family and how they are raising their children; let me ask you

    Could you raise your children like that where they are respectful to their parents and other siblings.

    I wish I could say that my childhood was like their family but that would be a lie. I know that everyone has a right to their own opinion but maybe you should go through your own closets and clean out the skeletons before you make rude comments about a family with that many kids.

    Maybe they really have a love for a big family and they got their wish from God and giving them all these children because he is the only one that knows whether they can take care of them or not.

    I personally admire them very much and want to wish them all the luck in the world and GOD BLESS THE DUGGAR FAMILY!!!

  73. ParrotLover77 Says:

    Terri – I’m child-free, so no kids. My wife and I don’t want to be responsible for the demise of much of the life on this great planet because we greedily think we need to pass on our DNA. That’s why I’m snipped. So most of your argument is moot.

    Second, massively brainwashing your kids during their most formative years is not the same as teaching them. Even though it’s on the opposite spectrum as neglect, it’s still child abuse, in my opinion, because it limits their future potential to your extremely narrow-minded worldview.

  74. liza almadrigo Says:

    i think duggar family are AWESOME!!! i salute them for raising all their kids with full of respect with one another, and love.

  75. Ron Britton Says:

    You people don’t know how close I’ve come to turning off the comments for this post so many times now.

    The only thing that the pro-Duggar people have been saying lately is “i think teh duggars are awsum!” If you can’t add any intelligent conversation to the discussion, then go spend your time doing something more useful than leaving brain-dead zombie-tron comments on blogs that are way above your intellectual capacity.

  76. Barbara Says:

    i’m trying hard to have full of respect for liza, and love.

  77. Rational Being Says:

    These children will grow up to be the biggest bunch of fucked up people around.

    “God” told me just today that I should write this.

  78. Rational Being Says:

    My wife just brought up an interesting point—

    Their house is considered a church and pays no taxes—

    When was the last time you saw a church with a pool table in it?

    What a scam!

  79. Pat H Says:

    I have watched the Duggar family specials and have to say that at first I saw them as a clean cut Amercian family (a little too Brady Bunch maybe). But….I had no idea their home was classifed as a church and therefore exempt from taxes. I pay taxes on everything I own…why shouldn’t they? Also, when they mentioned that each older child was responsible for a ‘buddy’, I knew Jim Bob and Michelle were a few cards short of a full deck? And what the heck are jurisdictions? Making a 13 or 15 year old girl cook for this army is cruel in my book.

    Also, I love my jeans. God never told my parents that girls could not wear pants. Those poor Duggar girls will never know the comfort of a good pair of jeans (until they move out and marry someone from the real world – if that’s possible). Those poor Duggar boys better hope they don’t marry anyone from the real world!

    I believe in ‘live and let live’. I don’t push my religion on anyone and I will not allow anyone to push theirs on me. I also believe in free will. I don’t think the Duggar children know what free will is. I can’t help but wonder what will happen when the birds leave the nest.

  80. Anne SF Says:

    You certainly do have a right to criticize the Duggar Family, but your comments only expose your own ignorance and mean spiritedness. Why do you care about the lifestyle someone else chooses? If the only part of the Bible you have read is the “begats”, then you are truly ignorant on that topic. You say you do not believe in Hell. That is your right, but it does not change the truth that Hell does exist. Someday you may pray, even beg to be reincarnated as a member of the Duggar Family.

  81. Ron Britton Says:

    Anne:

    As I said earlier, they have chosen to go public with their lifestyle. That gives me the right to publicly give my opinion on that lifestyle.

    You made an interesting assertion:

    it does not change the truth that Hell does exist.

    OK. Since you’ve stated that as a fact, please provide documentary evidence to support this claim.

  82. Anne SF Says:

    Ron:

    Of course, I cannot provide documentary evidence that Hell exists, as I’ve never been there, and science cannot prove or disprove its existence. But on the “chance” that Hell does indeed exist, I plan on doing all I can to try to avoid such a place. If it does not exist, I will have lost nothing. But if it does exist and you happen to go there, you will have lost everything.

  83. Ron Britton Says:

    Anne:

    So now you’re changing your story. You started off by claiming that Hell’s existence was a fact. I’m glad that you’ve tempered your stridency. The theists’ smug attitude that they know everything sours a lot of people on religion. If you’re trying to convert people, you won’t do it that way.

    It is also not up to science to prove or disprove Hell. Science has no opinion on the subject, because science only concerns itself with understanding the natural world. Furthermore, the person making the claim is the one who has to support it. Opinions are fine, though. If you like Hell and want it to exist, you can pretend that it does. Just don’t claim that its existence has been proven, which is what you did in your original posting.

    I find it amusing how many of you religious folk cling desperately to Pascal’s Wager, as if it is some Revealed Truth. It’s actually a fairly sophomoric syllogism that was long ago crushed by other philosophers. There are many good sites on the web that take it apart. Here are just a few of the common arguments:

    1. There is no good reason to believe PW’s premise:

    If God exists, then whoever doesn’t believe in him will end up being eternally tormented.

    2. According to the Bible, more is required for salvation than mere belief in God.
    3. It assumes belief has no cost.
    4. It assumes that the correct god is worshipped.

    There are others, but some of them start to get complicated and deep. You’re welcome to Google to subject for more information.

  84. ParrotLover77 Says:

    Regarding PW. Ron, you touched on it with the “more is required” but I wanted to expand that with something that even fundies can understand (I hope)…

    1. Let the Christian God exist for the purpose of this example
    2. Let an unbeliever act like a believer for the purpose of Pascal’s Wager
    3. Let the unbeliever stand before judgement
    4. Would God spare the unbeliever from damnation simply because he acted as a believer despite in his heart not believing what he preached? According to the bible (and fundies), no.

  85. Brittany Says:

    I have only seen one show on this family, and as I watched, it made me more and more angry about every aspect of their lives. Where does the money come from? Real estate agents? BULL SHIT! Medical insurance? Food? Wardrobe (which looks like they are from a cult)? My husband is an agent and we struggle with two children! Gimme a break! Has this woman (or her husband) ever heard of BIRTH CONTROL? Over population? DAMN, keep your legs closed for once. You are a human being, not a damn rabbit! FREE THE ROBOT CHILDREN!! Hardy har har :P

  86. Leslie Says:

    Hello,

    The only thing consistent about emotions is that they come and go. Emotions or feelings do affect our opinions of our perceptions of others. As I’ve read some of the responses to the negative comments made above (in my opinion), I was dismayed to learn that those who claim to be “freedome thinkers” are angry at a family who touts Christian beliefs and has a roomful of children, Although I may not completely understand the Duggar Family’s faith and thinking concepts, I do respect them for raising their children with a belief in God and a desire for order. It appears that the children are loved, happy, well fed and are being trained to develop thoughts independent of others. As far as I can tell, they are not murderers, drug users, schemers or liars. It’s amazing to me that this family has be villified for practicing a lifestyle that some perceive to be too dictated, antiquated or old fashioned.

    As a clinical social worker who counsels troubled teens (from devestating background with little to no parental influence), I find the Duggar family parental style very hands-on and just plain refreshing, actually.

    My question to the writer is, why spend so much time trying to destroy this innocent family? I wonder if you have been wounded or experienced a deep hurt from a person who used Christianity as an attempt to overly control you? How else would such negative, acrid remarks so freely pour forth? It’s natural not to agree with everything (aka insight or good judgment), but your harsh, cynical comments bespeak of a hurtful, devastating past. May you find solace, forgiveness and inner comfort soon.

    Thank you for your time.

  87. Ron Britton Says:

    Leslie:

    The family is creepy, oppressive, and controlling. That’s not a normal or healthy environment to grow up in.

    I’ve spent very little time “trying to destroy this family”. I spent a few hours writing a couple of articles almost a year ago, and I haven’t come back to them since. Stop trying to overanalyze things. Your psychoanalysis is way off the mark.

  88. Parrotlover77 Says:

    “It’s amazing to me that this family has be villified for practicing a lifestyle that some perceive to be too dictated, antiquated or old fashioned.”

    1. As my wife’s grandmother said, “humans weren’t meant to have litters.”
    2. There are far, far too many humans on this planet. The negative effects can be seen easily. If they were just an oppressive, creepy, controlling fundie family of four (mom, dad, son, daughter), I wouldn’t care nearly as much. It is absolutely selfish and irresponsible to have that many children, even if they are well cared for. (Which, honestly, I do not think they are, being as dogmatically oppressed as they are.)

  89. Barbara Says:

    It appears that the children are loved, happy, well fed and are being trained to develop thoughts independent of others.

    Love is hard to define, so I will skip that. Yes, they do appear to be happy now. I am sure this is mostly due to the fact that their lives are so isolated and controlled that they do not understand what is available for them elsewhere. They have little or no exposure to the “outside” world since they are homeschooled and socialize only with other members of their family. Is it “normal” for a child to have no friends from outside their immediate family? Well fed. Excuse me while I laugh my ass off. They eat processed foods, very little to no fresh fruits or vegetables and have a soda fountain at their disposal. Go on to their website and check out their recipes. Tater tot casserole…mmmmm delicious and nutritious!

    Lastly, “being trained to develop thoughts independent of others”… Which Duggar family are you talking about? These people drill fundamentalist Christian beliefs which saturate all of their education into their hair-laden heads 24/7. I have yet to see the special where Jim Bob sits down with the brood and starts out the conversation with “So, what do y’all think about gay marriage?” His belief system is all the children are exposed to, so how does this encourage independent thinking? I’d really like you to answer that one.

    I don’t expect to see a response though, Leslie. As pointed out above, so many fans of the Duggars love to slam those of us who feel these children are being abused and then leave, never to return.

  90. Leslie Says:

    Barbara and Ron,

    It appears my opinions have been taken as forms of criticism – it is not my desire to slam anyone who holds different beliefs than mine. Whether we hold similar or opposing views, it’s human nature to become defensive when someone has a different opinion. I’ve done it and so have you. You are unknown to me as is the Duggar family. And, Ron, you’re right – I don’t know your thoughts or heart. I apologize for over-analyzing you. However, haven’t we also done a similar thing to the Duggar family? Could it be that we are off the mark concerning them as well? We have made an opinion(s) of them w/o talking and getting to know them.

    My knowledge of them is composed of 2 TLC channel episodes and a search of their website, which intrigues me as it sounds almost foreign in today’s society. What I do know is that I admire some of their parenting skills, homeschooling efforts, money mgmt. styles, etc. Even their independent thoughts (yes – my pereception) garnered via independent homeschooling assignments, world news’ research and daily studies of God’s Word. There’s a verse in II Timothy that talks about studying to show oneself approved by God by rightly dividing His Truth (His Word). What I believe He is saying is to do the research – dig, dig, dig. He is big enough to love us despite our differences, hey, He created us! He didn’t make us to be robots – He gave us a wonderful ability to make complex, insightful decisions of our own – independent of others.

    With that said, I am aware that the Duggar children are living a sheltered life compared to today’s youth culture. Yes, like any child, they will succomb on some level to rebellion – it’s a part of human nature. Yet, I would much rather associate with a family that offers their children love, positive attention and discipline, than to be raised in an environment with limited to no guidance – to me, that is living in a true vacuum. Structure is not bad (and, no, I was not raised in a Christian home). My lengthy explanation is a feeble attempt to communicate that some Duggar family fans are respectful of other viewpoints.

  91. ParrotLover77 Says:

    Leslie – I must interject here with this. You seem to see structure and discipline. But I see brainwashing and oppression of critical thought.

  92. Pbgh Jen Says:

    I agree that the children in this family are oppressed but nobody has really addressed the issue of Michelle Duggar.

    I am not totally sure that this lifestyle is her choice. Of course, there is no way to be sure because, at this point, she thinks that this lifestyle is her choice. I have seen Jim Bob’s family mentioned in a few interviews and articles but nothing about her family or upbringing (other then the strange need to continually mention that she was a cheerleader). I have to wonder if she has been purposely isolated from her relatives and support system as part of her brainwashing to the Goddard and Quiverful mindset. She seems to be as much a victim as the kids. Remember, Andrea Yates was another Quiverful mom and was, obviously, terribly unhappy and unstable. When does excessive pressure from religious groups for women to bear huge numbers of children become a feminst/human rights issue?

  93. Barbara Says:

    That’s a great point. I know I read somewhere that her doctor had warned her after her 10th child that it was becoming more and more medically unsafe for her to become pregnant. She is also in her early 40s (I believe) and the older the mother, the higher risk the pregnancy becomes both for herself and for the child. I do expect that within the year, she’ll announce another pregnancy.

  94. ParrotLover77 Says:

    Pbgh Jen – Good point. Additionally, it must be noted how much emphasis there is on how wonderful the things “daddy” does for the family are, but never a mention of the hard work she does. Of course, I suppose in a family like this you expect the “traditional” male-dominant roles to formulate (breadwinner versus homemaker), but in addition, it’s as if daddy does no wrong. A pseudo-jesus figure, if you will. But that’s just based on the website reading. Hard to tell how far this goes. It wouldn’t surprise me, however, to find out she’s not as happy as she lets on.

    It’s no coincidence that societies with equal rights and opportunities for women have lower birthrates than those where the woman is suppressed. The quiverfull types are an extreme example of where and how that still exists even in the United States. And that’s just sad.

  95. Daniel Says:

    A point to everyone who has stated not existing in god is a pointless life. It’s not. Plenty of atheists have brought meaning to their lives.

  96. Bubbliscious13 Says:

    Isn’t the way the Duggars choose to live really based on their oppinion? In reality, none of them would change their lifestyle just because some blogger online didn’t approve of it. We can only accept and/or respect it. Plus, I know no one commenting on here would change the way they live either.

  97. Bunkie Says:

    Bubbliscious13,
    It is true that the Duggar adults will most likely not change their lifestyle due to what is written in the pages of this blog. (It would probably take something much more life altering to do it.)

    However, at one time, I called myself a Christian and the information on this blog, plus other websites it has pointed to, has helped me to decide to change my beliefs, and in effect, my lifestyle.

    I was brought up to believe in Christianity, to go to church, to tithe and all those other things that go with organized religion. It didn’t occur to me to believe otherwise. I don’t know why not. I come from a scientific background but, for some reason, I didn’t use any of my critical thinking skills on that particular subject. One believed in god. One didn’t want to be something as awful as an atheist — horrors of horrors. That was just the way it was. Period.

    Until relatively recently that is. Reading this blog gave me pause. It has helped me take a step back and really look at, and evaluate what, I believed in.

    The results? Science wins; religion loses. Atheists aren’t evil. In fact, I have a close atheist friend who has stronger morals and is more trustworthy than most of the Christians I know! I wouldn’t trade him for anyone.

    So what I am saying is that blogs like this CAN have an effect. It did for me. It may have for others.

    The children in the Duggar family know of no other lifestyle and thus cannot really make an informed decision to change theirs as I did. Many of the people who comment here are informed and thus can make, or already have made, those kinds of decisions.

    Perhaps, when the kids are older, have moved out, have managed to start thinking for themselves, are not under pressure from their fundie family and friends (which will certainly help the ‘thinking for themselves’ part), then they will be able to make an informed decision as to the lifestyle they choose to follow and the beliefs they choose to keep.

  98. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Out of that many kids, at least ONE is bound to be a black sheep. It will be interesting to see which one it is and what exactly happens…

  99. Leslie Says:

    Parrotlover and Bunkie,

    Yes, our views are different re. the Duggars – you see oppression whereas I see structure. Depending on one’s upbringing, personality, character traits, values, morals, etc. we are bound to have opposing (and even similar) views.

    To enhance Jean Piaget’s cognitive development stages, Lawrence Kohlberg, invented the the 6 stages, or 3 levels of moral reasoning development: pre-conventional (young children), conventional (older children/young teenagers) and post-conventional (older teens/young adults). Attaining this post-conventional stage (some do not make it), allows teens and young adults to cognitively and morally learn and understand that the world they perceive doesn’t evolve just around them – they are able to comprehend that life encompasses more than having their needs met.

    This is a sign of thinking outside the box – learning to bypass one’s own needs in an effort to reach out to others in need. Just because the Duggar family raises their brood in an environment with strictness and order doesn’t mean that the children will grow up to be stunted or damaged individuals – on the contrary.

    Whether one is raised in a fundie family is not the heart of the matter. It’s if one is raised in a loving, disciplined home (need both – can’t have one w/o other) where there is respect, affection and kindness shown to all family members. Independent thinking will come as the children grow and learn (with their parents’ help) beyond themselves. Normal physical and cognitive maturation will occur in a child who has been imparted with a strong foundation – again, hard to imprint on a child’s brain if structure is not present – children need guidance and direction, otherwise, their limited maturity will prevent them from meeting the needs of others. Children are indeed gifts that need to be nurtured and cultivated – not left to grow like weeds in an unattended field.

    Leslie

  100. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Children are gifts? Gifts from what/whom? It’s pretty easy to make a baby (as can be seen by our overpopulated world). Not a great gift, if you ask me. Maybe instead of constantly making more, acting like it’s not the result of the sinful act of sex, the duggars and other quiverfuls should adopt some of the thousands of kids who need homes? Well, I’ll be honest, I’m torn on that. Not sure if it’s worse being smothered by a fundie family where you will never be allowed to understand or know the true wonders of the universe, or living in a foster home where you may be scarred from the lack of love you get from parents/guadians. But the point is, they don’t even try. Such great wonderful upstanding people they are. Helping out their fellow hum– oh wait.. that’s right. They don’t do that. It’s all about their babies and having more of them.

  101. Caroline Says:

    The family is creepy, oppressive, and controlling.

    You have absolutely NO RIGHT to make such a statement without even having met the famliy. This is their choice, and I totally agree with them. And about hell? On earth you can talk all you want but when you get to hell you sure will believe in it!

  102. Ron Britton Says:

    Caroline:

    We have absolutely every right to describe what we see. They parade around on national television acting like they’re so special. They proudly and selfishly overconsume resources from a finite world. They rigidly regulate every moment of their children’s lives. They are brainwashed stooges of a warped interpretation of an outdated superstition.

    Your comment about hell is depressing. Depressing, because it shows that this country is full of people whose view of reality is so warped that they will gladly despoil this Earth for their own fictional benefit in a delusional afterlife.

  103. Parrotlover77 Says:

    I couldn’t have said it better. The “you just wait and see” argument is childish. “Just want until my big brother gets home! He’ll beat you up!”

    I try to live my life in a way to minimize my resource footprint on this planet, while also contributing something worthwhile artistically and intellectually. I try to help out my fellow humans and other inhabitants on this planet financially when I can, or by doing “good” acts when I see opportunities to be charitable. In addition, I favor a form of government that maximizes liberty and provides welfare (OMG I used the welfare word) to those less fortunate than I was/am.

    If I’m going to hell because I think the Duggars are selfish parasites on the anus of humanity, then I never had a chance to begin with, because apparently being a good person and a good shepherd of the planet isn’t enough to outweigh critical political commentary on a family who has made their life public who represent a lifestyle that, if left unchecked, unchallenged, and elevated to a form of the ideal family as TLC keeps trying to do will, ultimately, destroy the planet for humanity and most other living organisms on this planet.

  104. Sue Blue Says:

    The references to “Little House on the Prairie” above reminds me of this family that attended my mom’s church back in the late 70′s/early 80′s. The father was an absolute authority figure, the mom literally “bound” her breasts to avoid sexually attracting any men, and the kids wore handmade clothes – the girl wore long dresses and bonnets exactly like Laura Ingalls – I kid you not. These people were so extreme that eventually the church kicked them out. Years later I found out that the boy had run away from home and was never heard from again, and the girl got pregnant at fifteen, left home, and developed a drug problem which ended with her losing custody of her child. So much for the meme that an isolationist fundie upbringing safegaurds against kids rebelling.

    Meanwhile, from a personal perspective, I outgrew my need for a sky-daddy, got a degree and a career, married an atheist who is an engineer, and raised two atheist kids (one who served in the Navy and was decorated and later got a degree in geophysics; my daughter is going to an art college in England). Yes – that’s right! Godless heathens all, and not a murderer, con artist, or immoral pervert among us! Not to mention that we bike to work, recycle, grow vegetables, and worked off our mortgage and other debts without cadging any tax loopholes via religion.

    Parading religion and so-called family values around on TV is no proof that a family is moral in any sense of the word. These people, at least in their TV personas, exemplify the worst of American conspicuous consumption. They drive around in huge gas-guzzling vehicles, consume enormous amounts of overprocessed fast foods, never evince any interest in health, exercise, social issues, the environment or anything other than their closed little bubble world. The food and tax money and resources squandered by this brood in one day could help dozens of poor children who weren’t born with these advantages, yet you never see them doing any charitable work on their TV show. And, from experience, I can say that if they are doing anything remotely “charitable”, it’s through their church and you can bet there are all kinds of “we’ll feed you if you believe” strings attached. I see nothing redeeming about them or their lifestyle.

  105. Fred Says:

    Just wondering — what is the factual basis of your comment, “(BTW, they don’t pay any property tax on that giant house of theirs. They had it declared a church. You’re subsidizing their lifestyle.)?”

  106. Ron Britton Says:

    Fred:

    It was in one or more articles about them. At this late date, I don’t remember where I read it.

  107. Anne Says:

    After 17 kids can you imagine how loose and stretched out her va jay jay is? I am sure at this point, having sex with her would be like having sex with a 5 gallon bucket.

    These types of people really are a wart on our society. Every single thing about them is just wrong.

  108. Ron Britton Says:

    Anne:

    You reminded me of this article at What Pushes My Buttons. Here’s an excerpt:

    I think the funniest part of the recent birth was the mother, Michelle (who is the only non J-named person in the family) who said quote: “It actually went fast…I guess once I started progressing, it went within 30 minutes.”

    Gee…I wonder why the birth went so fast? Could it be that your birth canal is well accustomed to passing through children at this point. I mean it’s like a fuckin slip n slide right now. The fetus forms, waits a few months, sees the light and then just slides right out.

    Michelle Duggar giving birth

    Re-enactment of Duggar clan birth

    I’m not even gonna ask how sex is like. How can there be any traction on the tires at this point? Some of you have broken out the Stewie Griffin “it’s like throwing a pencil down the hallway” line. Either way, good ole Jim Bob must be hung like a horse to fit in.

  109. Caroline Says:

    Incidentally, I think it is disgusting to have seventeen children. I am a nurse and there is no way that by this time Mrs. Duggar is a healthy, normal person. None at all, and what she is doing is potentially very harmful to her health. Besides the fact that no matter how good of a Christian you are, you just can’t raise seventeen children properly, there’s not enough time in a day for them to get the time with their parents that they need. But I do think that it is wrong to bash others simply because they hold a different view point than you. These are not going to be well-adjusted, happy adults when they grow up, but then, who could be growing up in a dormitory?

    I believe that hell is a very real place, and I would surely rather be safe than sorry. I am trusting in the blood of Jesus Christ, and I don’t need to fear. Go find something better to do with your time why don’t you.

  110. Ron Britton Says:

    Caroline:

    There are few things better to spend my time on than defending this country from the damage caused by fundies.

    Ah, yes. The logical fallacy known as Pascal’s Wager raises its ugly head once again.

    Russell's Teapot meets Pascal's Wager

    (Image from Russell’s Teapot)
  111. Parrotlover77 Says:

    It is amazing how often Pascal’s Wager is invoked. Plus, it seems a great many people come up with it (or a variation thereof) on their own without ever even knowing who Pascal was. It’s really uncanny. I used to also invoke a form of PW to myself when wrestling with what I personally believed to be the “spiritual” truth. Those were my dark days before finally realizing that organized religions really don’t have any more answers than I do (and the science-denying ones frequently have less).

    The amazing thing is, as solid of an argument it seems when you make it to yourself (or others) with the rose-colored glasses on, it is amazingly easy to expose its flaws, as that silly cartoon so clearly demonstrates.

    I wonder if PW is sort of a natural step out of fundamentalism, just based on how many people invoke it and what stage of “belief” they seem to be in (ranging from fundyism to atheism)? You never hear a fundie invoke the wager (or rarely, at least) because belief is not enough — you must also abandon science (evolution et al) because it contradicts the literal belief held so tight. It’s not enough to just “bet on” Jesus, you have to let him into your heart, etc.

    Anyway, just found that interesting.

  112. Pbgh Jen Says:

    These people almost make the Duggars look normal.

    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23254746/

    They HAVE to be fundies and quiverfuls. Does anyone know?

    They were on the Today show to discuss their choice to deliver conjoined twins who share a heart and a liver. They were diagnosed when she was 12 weeks prego and advised to terminate the pregnancy. Also, they have 3 other kids and… wait for it… another due in May. WTF? I wonder how long before they are on TLC to pay for a new house and trip to Disney – not to mention the medical expenses of WILLINGLY bringing conjoined twins into the world in the year 2007 in the Western world! And those poor babies!

    I guess it was all about god’s will, but what about all that medical intervention needed to keep both the mother and the twins alive? If it was god’s will, then they should have had an unmedicated, vagina birth attended by a midwife at home – right? Guess what god’s will would have been then?

  113. Barbara Says:

    How do they make the Duggars look normal? I see a young attractive couple, appear to be relatively affluent,no mention of religion, she’s wearing makeup and she and her daughter are wearing jeans. 6 kids is not the same as 16. She chose to continue with a difficult pregnancy and give birth to kids with disabilites. They made no mention about religion.

  114. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Yea, Pbgh Jen, I’m not feeling the outrage here either. I’m a big anti-Duggar person, and don’t get me wrong, six kids is too many, in my opinion, since it exceeds the zero population growth we need to prevent the earth from being harmed worse than it is. HOWEVER, that being said, I’m not going to tell somebody they need to abort because they have too many kids nor because their kid might be born with a disability. That’s crossing the line.

    it is not unheardof for conjoined twins to live out there life conjoined and be perfectly happy. Why not give them the chance? It sounds like an incredibly risky separation for them and would bring with it many disabilities they may not have right now nor have remaining conjoined. IANAD, but if their health is good and their prognosis is good, and mother wasn’t in danger (or was okay with the danger), then what’s the problem here with having those kids?

  115. Pbgh Jen Says:

    How is chosing, against all rational medical advice, to give birth to conjoined twins, who have little hope of surviving more than a few years, rational or normal?

    These people chose to give birth to two terribly disabled children who will probably die after a few years of pain and suffering.

    These people failed to consider things like:

    1.) the staggering health care cost (which is already being pawned off on donors – they have a blog with a bank account – and I’m sure, at some point, taxpayers)

    2.)the socio-emotional, not to mention economic, toll on their three living children

    3.)the pain and suffering imposed on these babies (after all, some anti-choicers out there want embryos to get anesthesia so we probably should consider the pain of real, live babies somewhat important too)

    In addition, the mother is pregnant again very soon after giving birth to two extremely disabled babies. Safe, effective birth control is readily available in the US. How exactly, without extreme amounts of help, is she going to care for these babies with a newborn?

    I never said that these people stated anything about religion. In fact, I asked, in my comment, whether they were fundies. My reasoning was that they must be some type of religious extremists. Otherwise, I am having trouble reconciling the fact that two rational, seemingly intelligent people would make these choices.

    The only answer has to be rabid, anti-choice thinking, which is part and parcel of the whole fundie package. These people also stated that they are going on the Today show to let others in their situation know that giving birth to conjoined twins can work out (for whom?). That is anti-choice propagada if I ever heard it.

    And yes, they are going to be on Discovery…

  116. Pbgh Jen Says:

    Please see
    http://www.azcentral.com/community/pinal/articles/0208gr-conjoined0213.html

    There is info about the Discovery Channel and that they are planning to set up a non-profit organization. No mention of what that would be for. Studies regarding conjoined twins or anti-choice? Does anyone know?

    QUOTE: Not only have the Baileys received money and well wishes, but they’ve also heard from a producer at Good Morning America, as well as a documentary filmmaker working with the Discovery Channel.

    “We’re really excited to see where (the documentary) is going to go,” said Bailey , who always said the family doesn’t want to “Hollywood our situation,” but understands that the spotlight can help at times too.

    “It feels like we’re pushing two trains forward right now, one towards Emma and Taylor’s separation and the other is our dream of a nonprofit to help others,” she said.

  117. Barbara Says:

    You stated ” I guess it is all about God’s will”. I was merely pointing out that they never said anything about religion in the video you provided a link to so I think it’s a stretch to make that statement.
    I still don’t see a comparison here to the Duggars.

  118. Barbara Says:

    I also see nothing in their decision that points to them being anti-choice. A doctor suggested they consider aborting, they made the choice not to.

  119. Parrotlover77 Says:

    I don’t have all the facts to dispute much of what you said, but I watched a documentary on a conjoined pair (I believe they were English) that weren’t supposed to live past 2 and they are now teenagers. I mean I’m sure doctors are right that it’s rare for that to happen, but what’s wrong with giving them a chance? I’m really not feeling the “it’s too expensive” vibe there. That’s borderline eugenics. Cost is a real fact for American healthcare, unfortunately, and choosing what care to get and when. But criticizing a family for having a child with a disability simply because it might be expensive makes me VERY uncomfortable. Cost should not be the factor here. It’s inhumane to make it so. Your quality of life argument is much more convincing, but still, like I said… Giving them a chance seems, to me, to be the humane thing to do IF the parents are willing to go through with it. It’s their choice to abort or not. That’s the very definition “Pro-Choice!” There are many, many pro-choicers who would probably never have an abortion. That doesn’t make them anti-abortion. It means they CHOSE (and had the right to choose) what they wanted to do. A doctor can make recommendations, but if they want to have the child, so be it. Education is the key to a sustainable population and sustainable resource footprint, not restrictions of chioce.

    Could she have made more responsible “family planning” decisions? Certainly. Is she requried to? Hell no.

  120. Annie Says:

    So, let me get this straight: this is a website for people with screwed up lives who have to make themselves feel better by knocking and insulting people who actually have productive lives? Hmm. I think I’ll pass. Word to the wise: get a LIFE! You people are the scary ones. Did your parents not like you or something and you’re all jealous of the Duggars? Obviously each of you are fascinated with them so why not be positive? You guys actually make your case for abortion without making fun of people who love their children -so get a grip!

  121. Ron Britton Says:

    You caught us. We’ve set up an entire web site with over 3000 pages of text and 1200 photographs and drawings devoted to humiliating the Duggar family. It is all we do. It is our obsession. Our mission in life. Order will not be restored in the universe until the Duggars have renounced their joyful ways. We will continue to ridicule and humiliate them until they throw themselves at our feet and beg for mercy and forgiveness.

    Then we will set up a site to humiliate people who are offended by what other people write on web sites.

  122. Daniel Says:

    Ron Britton’s last comment:

    Owned!

  123. Annie Says:

    How can you possibly say such hateful things about people you don’t even know? What did they ever do to you? Is your life so pathetic that you have to bash innocent people to get a laugh? Well, I feel really bad for you because you need major help. Apparently, you didn’t get attention as a kid except when yo made fun of people. I have met this family and i’ve never met anyone sweeter than them. They have their heads on straight, letting God dictate everything they do. It takes tremendous faith and determination to do that. Maybe your own kids are so messed up and your so jealous that you have to say this about them. Their kids help eachother and dress the way they do not only because that’s what their taught but also, they read the Bible and know how to act. If you’ve never read the Bible, (obviously not), you would see that it strongly encourages siblings to help eachother. The Bible doesn’t say you have to wear dresses but, it DOES say to dress modestly. Look it up. For them that’s the best way to do that. That’s their business and not anyone elses. Anyone who bashes them is hurting inside and is jealous. The good news is, Jesus can help you! He really really wants you to come to know Him and have a relationship with Him. Just say a prayer asking Him to forgive yout sins and ask Him to guide you in everything that you do. He forgives anything and everything that you’ve done, no matter what it is. This is serious. If you don’t start a relationship with Him now, you won’t get into Heaven. Contrary to popular beleif, good deeds don’t get you there. Only a personal relationship and repentance,(not to the priest either), to the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I know you can do it. Please stop bashing these innocent people. Just because they’re different from the average,(which is absolutley terrible anyway), doesn’t mean they’re crazy. They are doing just what we’re meant to do. Also, birth control is the same as having an abortion. Do you agree with those too? If so, look at the websites with pictures of the killed BABIES and see if they look like they’re not human. They are decapitatied and mutilated BABIES! How can people be so sick. If God can forgive those people, than he can forgive ANYTHING!!!!!! I welcome your comments.
    God help and bless you all,
    @nnie

  124. Annie Says:

    One more thing, all you people saying that Michelle’s insides must be terrible. I don’t think there’s a verse that says…”You must only have 3 kids, if you have more, you wil fall apart.” I mean come on! It’s why we have those organs!

  125. Ron Britton Says:

    Annie:

    I wrote a couple of articles about the Duggars a year ago! I’ve said very little about them since.

    How long did it take you to write your little 500-word mini-book up there? It looks like you’re the one who is obsessing. I moved on long ago.

    As far as the rest of your comments are concerned, they aren’t worth my time. You obviously haven’t read all of the other 120 comments in this thread. Most of your concerns are addressed there. Obviously we disagree, but I’m not going to retype all of the old discussions for you just because you’re too lazy to read.

  126. Tiger Says:

    I don’t like the Duggar family. Actually, that’s not right. I don’t mind the mom and the kids. I don’t like Jim-Bob Duggar. I don’t like his politics and I don’t like his tax evasions. I don’t like how he sucks off the tit of the community. He may not have any debt but it sure is easy to be debt free when you’ve got sombody else footing the bill the entire way. Duggar just built a 7,000 square foot house. He claims he built it himself. BS. TLC and a bunch of companies in the area donated materials and labor. Why? Because this guy has basically pimped out his wife and kids to the media in exchange for it. Sure, that’s his business…but you know what they say..there’s no such thing as a free lunch. When these businesses give away stuff to one person, that leaves the rest of us paying customers to pay higher prices to make up the shortfall on the freebies to the pimp. Not only that, now that the house is finished, he has applied for and RECEIVED tax exempt status on the property as a church…because he holds Sunday services in the house for his family. The guy isn’t even an ordained minister! In other words, YOU are paying more than your fair share of taxes so this jackass can read the Bible for a hour every Sunday morning in his own living room. Nice huh? Maybe I’ll apply for tax exempt status. I’m sure I can get some of my frat brothers to come by and read out of the Good Book while we’re all nursing hangovers….and save a few bucks while I’m doing it!

    Lastly, Jim Bob is a politician…or at least he’s trying to be. Fortunately, even people from Arkansas aren’t stupid enough to elect him these days. (and I can get away with saying that because I’m from North Louisiana!) Probably the people in Arkansas got wind of the idea that ole Jim Bob was cooking up with Rick Santorum from Pennsylvania (another Fundie who pushed his luck with the American people and was solicitiously voted out of office) . These two blowhards were putting together a bill which would ban the use of ANY form of birthcontrol in this country…even by married couples. While Little Orphan Annie on here thinks that using birth control is the same as abortion (get an education, dumbass), normal people in this country realize BS when they see it. And fortunately, both Jim Bob Duggar and Rick Santorum had BW written across their faces in neon lights.

  127. Parrotlover77 Says:

    he has applied for and RECEIVED tax exempt status on the property as a church

    First, I loathe the Duggars, but I must play Devil’s Advocate for a second.

    I’ve heard this in many places about the tax exempt status on their house, but I have yet to find an authoritative source mention it (such as a news article, public records website, TLC special — from anyone who would know for sure). The only place I can find this information is in blog posts and blog comments, uncited, which puts up a red flag for me that it might just be speculation that has spread and become an anti-Duggar meme. Jim Bob very well may be gaming the system this way, but I want to see some evidence of the tax exemption before I pass judgement. Tiger – do you have any, I hope? Even if it isn’t true, the rest you said about the donations IS (admitted as such in the TLC specials). Want to take bets on what Jim Bob thinks of welfare moms?

  128. Barbara Says:

    You can find the information online thru the http://www.ar-tax.org/ website. Look for Washington County. You’ll have to do a lookup using their last name and several items come up. On the property, it appears they are paying over 6k in taxes. I don’t know if they get more than the homestead credit that’s listed or if there are other properties they own which are tax exempt or not.
    6k sounds like a lot of taxes in BF Arkansas, but I have no idea what their property is worth and what the tax rate is. I did note that over 5k of their taxes go towards education so you know Jim Bob is praying for some kind of homeschool tax credit!

  129. Tiger Says:

    The Duggars own several pieces of rental property in Arkansas. Their actual home address is listed as tax exempt because Duggar declared it a church. I doubt Jim Bob is wily enough to figure out how to get a tax exemption on his rental property so he probably passes that expense along to his renters. Granted, with 17 kids, you need a tax exemption or two to put food on the table. But Jesus Christ, Jim Bob, the rest of us like to eat too, ya know? You wanna keep it in your pants for a couple of years so that the rest of us can have a good meal of tater tot casserole and ice cream sandwich cake every once in a while? shit….

  130. Barbara Says:

    I’m not aware of their actual home address but the place listed in the ar-tax website was on 20+ acres and it did have the homestead credit which makes me think it’s the TLC house. I might be incorrect, though…which address did you show tax exempt? Like Parrot, I am no fan of the Duggars but I don’t think it’s right to continue to claim that they don’t pay taxes on their home if there is no proof of that.

  131. JBunny Says:

    WOW!!

    Just finished reading all the comments – and I have to say:

    I just discovered the fundie Duggar family. I was drinking cheap beer (and getting quite happily wasted, too!) while flipping through the channels. Saw TLC and this shitload of kids… what a fucking freak circus! Of course, I HAD to Google this shit and very happily stumbled on to this blog.

    The Dugger family is like watching a trainwreck. You know that something is wrong and the train is going to run like a wild beast off the rails – but you don’t know exactly when, how, or why. I figure with that much religious and social oppression going on, someone is going to go “off the rails” and it’ll be absolutely full-tilt craziness!!

    About the birth control thing… I did read where Jim Bob and Michelle posted that they originally used birth control, but *realised* that any foetus that was initially conceived was “expelled” because of the hormones. Well… why can’t old Jim Bob wrap his fucker with a damned rubber? Then there is NO *spontaneous abortion* to worry about… but I’m sure that Jim Bob would come up with some rhetoric for the lives of the wasted sperm.

    I feel badly for the children. I don’t have any (hubby and I are childfree by choice), but this is sad and sorry.

    If I prayed (so sorry, athiests do not), I’d pray for a fucking uprising from all their kids!! MWAH-HAHAHA!!

  132. Parrotlover77 Says:

    JBunny – My wife and I are CFBC too. You are in good company. :-) I was snipped several years ago. Best. Decision. EVER!

  133. Sue Blue Says:

    If I didn’t know better, I’d think that the Duggar Show was satire. You know, some sort of a sick, ironic twist on the old ‘Mom n’ apple pie American lifestyle of the 50′s. The Stepford-like smiles of the oh-so-happy little Duggar kidbots is more chilling than humorous, however. And then there’s the unrelenting enthusiasm of “Jizz-Blob” Duggar for adding more arrows to his “quiver”, and the glassy-eyed grin of said quiver as she prepares to fletch the next one. The matching clothes and J-names just completes a scenario of unrelenting, mind-numbing horror as effective as any Orwellian dystopia.

    That this “family” not only exists but thrives on TV makes me feel like I just lifted up a rock and found a whole alternate evil universe underneath it – one with cockroaches the size of Buicks taking over apartments while human beings live in the cracks and drooling idiots with personality disorders run the country with mobsters and con-men preachers and burn scientists at the stake….wait a minute…that’s really happening….

  134. Megan Says:

    If the Duggar’s house is a church can random people just walk in cause they feel like it??? Also they should be careful about their taxes, look what happened to their friend Kent Hovind.

  135. Sara Says:

    I grew up in a family like the Duggars, and my family knows them through homeschooling conventions. I left home at 17 because my dad was always screaming and punishing us. My life was very suffocating and my mother idolized Michelle Duggar. After they met and became friends, she began implementing the same rules in our home. Don’t be fooled by Michelle’s polished demeanor. She is not at all as sweet and soft spoken as she appears on tv. She taught my mom the “blanket method”. It’s how you teach a crawling baby to stay on a blanket. You sit the baby down on the blanket, and when he/she tries to move off of it, you hit the edges of the blanket near the baby with a yard stick so it scares them into staying on the blanket. If the baby absolutely won’t stay on it, then you spank by swatting at the hands of the baby trying to get off the blanket.

    One of their oldest daughters (sorry, will not name names) confided in my sister that Michelle screams and yells all of the time at her children. That she stays in her bedroom alot of the day and lays around while the older girls work the entire day. They call this “Training for a sacred marriage”. One of the girls who confided in my sister said she wanted to go to a certain college away from Arkansas, but Michelle wants all of the children to go to online college. She wants to keep them home for as long as possible until they get married. This is how it is in my family too.

    Whenever we girls would get together at the conventions and meet ups, we used to dream about wearing regular clothes, cutting our hair, wearing make up, and wondering what rock music was like.

    Women idolize and worship Michelle. They pay this woman to come and teach them how to run their own home. When the real truth is, Michelle doesn’t run her home. Her older girls do. And the older girls are the mothers to the smaller children. They change all the diapers, they do all the feedings, etc.

    The boys do not do women’s work. Only the women do dishes, cooking, laundry, etc. The television shows the boys doing chores. They don’t do indoor type chores on a daily basis. They only do “men’s work” outside.

    I hate to break it to anyone who thinks the duggars are perfect. They are pretty typical as far as the yelling, screaming, spankings with yard sticks, and punishment chores goes. I haven’t seen my family in years. Once you leave, you cannot come back until you get on your knees before the head of the house hold and repent that you are a sinner. It’s a part of things that the duggars would never ever discuss with the outside world. The reality of being in a sect.

  136. Sara Says:

    There are some other things about the oldest molesting two of the sisters, but I cannot talk about that because I don’t know if it’s truth. It has been nothing but a rumor. It’s almost rumored that Michelle is pregnant again, and plans to have up to 20 children.

  137. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Wow, Sara. I’m very sorry you had to grow up in a situation like that. I often suspected that the polished setting portrayed on TV was not the whole truth. I hope you are able to have a happy life from here out. I also hope that someday your family will “forgive” you without requiring you to “repent” or give up your new freedom. Good luck on everything! Welcome to the site, btw.

  138. Cat Feral Says:

    I’ve just found this site, and I must say, I get a kick out of it! Is it acceptable to post a link to a “lol-Duggar” pic I’ve created, and ask everyone here to vote for it?

    It's what Bob Barker would do!

  139. JBunny Says:

    Parrotlover77,

    When I see stuff like the Dugger family or – better yet – the Jeub family (yet another couple of fools that plan on fully populating the planet) – it makes me so glad that my husby and I are CFBC.

    I feel so bad for those children. To me, the parents are selfish and narcissistic – they don’t really seem to give a shit about their kids. It’s all about Michelle and Jim Bob – and their fucked up need to keep reproducing. Those children are someday going to have to function in mainstream American society, and they will be woefully unprepared to do so.

    To the girls like the PP, Sara – I know it’s got to be hard being away from your family – but I’M GLAD YOU GOT OUT!! Better to do so when you’re young than to be married with twelve kids and have an oppressor for a husband.

    Hence why I’m also Athiest…

  140. Sondra Says:

    I’m not going to put the Duggar’s down;their kids aren’t trouble-makers or druggies and such…but I do hope they encourage the kids to become independent;I see it as a bit much when Michelle says things like ‘dressing alike unites us as a family’.It’s almost like having twins and dressing them alike…there should be chances to appreciate the differences between them,and their uniqueness should be encouraged by their own individual choices,including clothing,and not by expecting them to all be alike,so as to be ‘united’ as a family.It’s like she doesn’t want them to grow up and leave home.
    I also question the value of their homeschooling;I know my own kids are very intelligent and have excelled beyond what I did in school.They take AP courses such as foreign languages,English,History,and especially excel in math…doing geometry,trigonometry and calculus with ease.Had I chosen to home school them,would I have been able to take them to this level on my own? I doubt it.I also doubt the I could have done it with the curriculum they use,even though it touts things such as ‘law and medicine’.Unless they have outside tutors come in,I don’t see how Michelle,with no more than a HS education herself,can properly educate her family and bring them to the highest level of achievement that they’re capable of.I put more value on education than that.And as far as the musical instruments,they should be allowed to chose what they want to play,if they choose to at all.Perhaps some would enjoy other talents and hobbies instead? I hope they’re given the chance.I also hope they will not be discouraged from going away to college,and out of state if they want.I hope the girls can aspire to have a career if they so wish.I have a feeling it is going to be a whole different world for them when they leave home and look back.They may know true happiness they’ve never felt before when they’re finally allowed to make their own choices.

  141. Sondra Says:

    Had I chosen to home school them,would I have been able to take them to this level on my own? I doubt it.I also doubt the I could have done it with the curriculum they use,even though it touts things such as ‘law and medicine’.

    I mean the curriculum Michelle uses;I meant to specify.

  142. Sondra Says:

    ..just to add,I bet they *do use some form of birth control between babies…else Michelle would have become pregnant within 2-3 months of the last baby between some of them,as breastfeeding isn’t a consistent form of birth control.Their website states average no. of months between births is 18.This leaves approx. 9 months between pregnancies,and plenty of time for fertility to return,even in the face of breastfeeding.

    Jim Bob says they would like to have more,so the girls can ‘catch up’ with the boys,but then he says he leaves it up to Michelle.But does she really have a say,knowing he wants more?(And what if the rest are boys anyway?) I know he was speaking hypothetically,but still…

    I do feel their need to have children started out of one thing…GUILT.And that was inscribed by some nutty Dr. who told them that the pill caused a miscarriage ! Perhaps she would have had one anyway? He doesn’t know that !

    It’s the same reason Mr Rogers became a priest…most ppl don’t know he was in the military and had over 25 confirmed kills prior…GUILT led him to what he became,although I do think he became an awesome person.It’s just that guilt shouldn’t be allowed to rule to such an extent as feeling the need to keep having baby after baby..it reminds me of women who get pregnant on purpose after an abortion (that does happen).There just doesn’t need to be such an extreme taken when something occurs that induces guilt,whether deserved or not.Just my opinion !

  143. Barbara Says:

    Sondra,
    I have no idea what your point is in your rambling ( guilt turns people into fundies?) but I did enjoy the Fred Rogers’ reference, although I’m straining to see a connection between him ( he was an ordained Presbyterian minister, not a priest and never served in the military ) and the Duggars and the women you know who purposely become pregnant after having an abortion.

  144. Mike Says:

    This commentary is absolutely brilliant, I can’t believe I’m just finding it now.

    Someone else touched on it, but religious kookery & tax evasion aside, have you seen their family recipes? Nothing but fake cheese & starches. How these kids don’t have scurvy yet is amazing. They have to be on the verge of malnourishment with that kind of awful diet. Completely unhealthy, barely any fresh fruit or vegetables.

    This family is completely creepy, and I have no doubt that the older kids will grow up hating & resenting their parents for stealing their youth, because they were forced to raise all of their younger siblings. I’ve seen it happen in almost every large family.

  145. Sue Blue Says:

    Anybody here reminded of the polygamist fundie sex cult recently busted in Texas? Some of those Duggar girls look just about old enough…you gotta wonder what’s gonna happen when Michelle plays out. She’s got to be getting down to her last few ova, and the old ute’s got to be just about falling out every time she stands up. You don’t think that “my sac is sacred” Jizz-Blob is eyeing his nubile up-and-coming baby-factories? With freaks like this, anything is possible. The Bible even condones it!

  146. Cynthia Says:

    Well,I gotta wonder if those boys will be giving their sisters the eye someday soon,since they aren’t allowed much contact with the outside world.Nature finds a way,no? It could end up being The Brady Bunch Gone Bad.

  147. bunkie Says:

    What a shock…… ANOTHER one on the way:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24537885&GT1=43001

    To quote from the article:
    “Joshua, the Duggars’ eldest son, said the news, two days before Mother’s Day was “a shock” — if only to a point.

    “I wasn’t expecting that,” the 20-year-old said. “But it’s been nine months [since the birth of the last baby], so yeah.””

  148. Mary Jo L Says:

    If they can afford 18 children, more power to them, but does Michelle have to have all the children? Have they heard of ADOPTION? There are so many children in this country who need a loving home I think it is a sin to keep reproducing like rabbits or mice. If they truly believe children are a blessing, then they should be reaching out to many suffering children and give them the love they want so much. And yes, I am a mother and have both biological and adoptive children. Anyone can have sex and have a baby; it takes a special person to love someone else’s unwanted child. So until the Duggars can do this, I don’t see them as being better or different than a pair of rabbits. So what if Michelle gets the world’s record for number of pregnancies, if she really loved children as she professes she would be reaching out and share her blessings with a child who otherwise may grow up in 5 different foster homes. Having babies doesn’t make her holy or special; loving other’s babies is what God asks us to do.

  149. amber Says:

    when is enough, enough… number 18 already brewing

  150. Cynthia Says:

    I think Mrs D.’s been eating toooo many Tater Tot casseroles! That’s why she’s so prolific. ;)

  151. Sue Blue Says:

    These people wouldn’t dream of adopting! After all, kids who need to be adopted are the unclean, cursed offspring of unwed harlots. And many are — horrors! — BROWN! Every fundie knows that God’s true chosen people are all as white as Wonder Bread. And, as their Good Book says, a leopard can’t change its spots. Besides, Jizz Blob and his receptacle’s only purpose in life is to repopulate the planet with Christ-Bots.

  152. Barbara Says:

    Mary Jo,

    I appreciate your support of adoption, but I have to cringe at the term “unwanted child”. I am sure my son’s birthmom would have loved to parent him. It’s a long story, involving a foreign culture I barely understand, but he was not unwanted. He was simply not able to be taken care of, and his birthmom did what she thought was best in relinquishing him to an orphanage.

  153. Rhonda Says:

    The only thing that really bothers me about this family is the older kids are all “assigned” a younger kid to be in charge of. I would never “assign” one kid to the other and make them responsible for taking care of them all day, dressing them, bathing them…the way I figure is if my husband and I had the babies we’re the ones that are to take care of them, and if we ever thought our kids needed to do it for us, then we would stop having kids.

  154. Sarah Says:

    My mother has told me many times that she has wanted to adopt, but my father never wanted to. However, she refused to have any more biological children after me (only two kids), because she believed that two parents=two pairs of arms and that if they had three children, someone would always get left out.

    Now my paternal aunt is an orthodox Jew and currently has six children, the oldest one less than three weeks younger than myself. Like the Duggars, the oldest ones have to help take care of the babies and basically be the adults while my uncle (who doesn’t work and leeches off his parents) prays for 18 hours of the day and my aunt (who works in Chinese medicine) pretends everything is hunky-dory in their shamble of a kosher-keeping house.

    If I wasn’t an atheist, I’d probably thank God (perferably Kira) that my parents hate large families and chose to keep ours small ^^

  155. Left of Center Says:

    In general, even though my views are left of center, I have a live and let live attitude. For the most part I believe diversity (even Duggar style diversity) is a good thing. My biggest issue with this family is that Mom has the babies and sort of passes them off to be raised by the siblings using a “buddy” system once the next one is born. The older children don’t really have a say in the matter. The other issue I have is the skewed (OK warped) education they are likely receiving. Like so many things in life there is no black or white but shades of gray in the situation.

  156. jan Says:

    Well looks like number 18 is on the way, I have noticed that the Duggars have plenty of land they should be raising some of their own food such as chickens and eggs instead of using up so many resources.

  157. Mary Jo L Says:

    Barbara,
    I apologize if the phrase “unwanted children” hurt you. My daughter was purposely left at an orphanage in Korea so she could get the medical attention the mother could not give, but many children in the U.S. are left at home while parents go out for crack and are abused and neglected. These are the children that could benefit in a loving 2 parent home with siblings to play with. Personally it takes a stronger belief in God to raise someone else’s child and the problems that sometimes come with that than popping out another clone of yourself. How dare they think we need more Duggars in this world. We have enough self centered people now. We need people with vision for a good global world, not more of their Duggar DNA floating around. That is what I meant with my view on adoption.

  158. Sharley Says:

    First off, Sara, I am so sorry you had to go through a childhood like that. One of my best friends in college had also left a family like that (at 15, and chose to be homeless in Seattle for a year rather than go back). At least you got out, though. You’ve got your own life, and your own -mind-, and I can only hope these poor Duggar girls will do the same.

    I don’t understand how anyone can approve of this family. Most of it’s already been said—the wastefulness, the brainwashing, the psychological effects on the kids and on Michelle. It doesn’t surprise me to hear she yells and lives in her room; her body and brain chemistry have been getting forcibly jerked around for the last twenty years. It’s only a wonder she hasn’t wound up like Andrea Yates, though if she keeps on as she’s been going, I think she’ll be dead before she’s forty-five anyway.

    I’m not religious. I’m not an atheist, either. ‘Agnostic’ is probably the closest term, but really it’s just spiritualism. I do believe there’s something up there, but I don’t believe in Christianity, and I have no patience for anyone who blindly submits to the decrees of -any- religion, to the exclusion of all else, especially when it’s so damaging to the family involved. Turning the family into a TLC circus only makes it worse; as has been said, -that- is how they’re really supporting it all, not Jim-Bob’s supposed job as a real estate agent. (My mother-in-law sells real estate, and no way in HELL could she support a family like that. Get real, Jim-Bob.) They’re using their religion as an excuse to build their own cult, and to me that is inexcusable.

    So far as those children go, I will seriously not be surprised if one of them grows up to be a serial killer. They seem fine -now-, but the disparity between their home life and that little thing called ‘reality’ is going to make itself felt sooner or later, and they’ll have to cope with that more or less without support, seeing as ol’ Ma and Pa seem to deny the existence of everything outside of their little bubble. They’ll either become just like their parents, or, more likely, try to get as far away from that lifestyle as they can. I would dearly love to see one of them rebel now, but I’ll bet that will get saved until they’ve safely made it out of Stepford Hell and flee without looking back.

    The downside of American freedom is that people like this are allowed to do as they will. At the end of the day, it’s all about their own selfishness, whatever anyone says—selfishness, and self-righteousness. What Michelle is going to do once she can’t have babies anymore (assuming she LIVES that long), I don’t know; probably try to steal whatever grandchildren she actually winds up having access to. Hopefully, she and Jim-Bob won’t get their claws into any of them.

  159. Bea Says:

    Thanks for the insight!! I read the announcement, #18 on the way, read some blogs, visited their website… Until now, I was undecided as to how I felt. Actually, I was borderline thinking that it was O.K. Pretty much none of my business, as long as they weren’t collecting welfare at my expense and they appeared to be upstanding citizens taking care of their own. The children all seemed happy, well cared for and well-adjusted…

    Well, like I said…that was until I happened upon this website!!!!!!!!! Here is some background… I have a married son and a married daughter, both in their 30′s. Each have 2 young children. As for me, I found myself alone, divorced after 30 years of marriage. Presently, this family is struggling… We have experienced the stress and worry of threatened foreclosure, (both families) and there are days when they wonder how they are going to put food on the table or gas in the car to get to work!!!! I am self-supporting after all these years and have fallen behind on everything. The stress for each and everyone of us has become overwhelming in this past year. My son and daughter are both educators, my son-in-law is head computer tech at a large hospital here in the northeast and myself and my daughter-in-law are both in the health field. We all work full-time plus!!! There are no vacations or trips to the zoo. My children’s homes are very small cape-style homes, nothing fancy and I live in an apartment. The grandchildren are certainly not showered with all of the fancy new gadgets, swimming pools, or exotic vacations like so many children nowadays…Honestly? Don’t know what we would do if the refrigerator went or the car broke down… hmmmmmmmmmmmmm? One idea just came to mind that may help out my kids a bit… If they each hold a Bible study one night a week, they could declare their homes a church and avoid property taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, I am being sarcastic… We will get by. We will continue to work our butts off and get through this and you will NEVER catch anyone from this family taking advantage of the government, or anyone else for that matter, to benefit ourselves!!!!!!!!!!

    Don’t let the Duggar’s fool you like they almost did me… If they are devious enough to have their home declared a church, you can bet that isn’t the only loophole they have found to make gain from!!!!!!!!!! #18 on the way???? OF COURSE!!!!!!! They have to; they have no choice now. If they don’t continue to procreate, people will lose interest and they won’t be getting paid the big bucks from companies to appear in ads, nor will they be getting paid big bucks to have their own television program such as the one on Discovery Health!!!! (I can’t believe Discovery is promoting them). If they stop, the income stops and they will find themselves in the same situation that so many like us are in today… Or, perhaps not… because then you and I would be paying for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like I said, thanks for the insight, I was almost duped!

  160. Cathy Says:

    Your little “pledge of allegiance” should have been enough to keep me from reading your crap. Not “under God” huh? You can have your opinions about this family and God, but rest assure, you WILL be judged some day by God. You will answer for the crap you put on this website. There IS a Heaven and a Hell. The Bible says that one day “every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord”. You may not believe, but when you stand before God, you will wish that you would not have been so stupid. Hell is punishment FOREVER! I think the Duggar Family is awesome.

  161. Caroline Says:

    I have to say that I completely agree with everything on this website. I so not believe in God, but I think it’s great to be religious and express yourself. However, I think that the Duggars take it way too far with the whole “God does everything” attitude. For those of you who say that this website is terrible, not to criticize the Duggars, to let them live their own lives and make their own choice, etc., you are basically going against what you’re saying by making those comments. It was the creator of the websites choice to say these things because it’s their life and they can say what they want. You need to stop criticizing them. I don’t care about the Duggars’ life, and I think it is wrong that they are publicized so much. How come families who only have one normal child aren’t on TV? It is not right that the Duggars get more attention and are basically thought of as “special” or “amazing”, and other families are not. It is not fair, and it needs to stop. If they want to have that many kids and wear clothes from a million years ago then fine, but don’t put them on TV for it!

  162. Sarah Says:

    Your little “pledge of allegiance” should have been enough to keep me from reading your crap. Not “under God” huh? You can have your opinions about this family and God, but rest assure, you WILL be judged some day by God. You will answer for the crap you put on this website. There IS a Heaven and a Hell. The Bible says that one day “every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord”. You may not believe, but when you stand before God, you will wish that you would not have been so stupid. Hell is punishment FOREVER! I think the Duggar Family is awesome.

    Cathy, unless you’ve become fluent in Greek and read the original Bible, I will never believe a word you say about your own religion (And which hell are you referring to by the way? Last I heard, many people described it differently). Also, if there was/is an afterlife, how do you know that it will be YOUR God that we will be forced to answer to? As I’ve mentioned in ten other comments, there are over 80000 religions currently worldwide. Many of them probably have more than one God.

    The only proof you have for your religion is the Bible and most religions aren’t much different. The Greeks had their myths, the Egyptians had their hieroglyphics, the Aztecs had their codices, etc. What makes the Bible any different? At the time, those beliefs were held as the truth such as Christianity is today for many members of the pathetically ignorant. In a thousand years, Christianity may very well join among their ranks as a forgotten faith.

    Unless you can prove your point with valid logical and scientific information, then you have no reason to even bother preaching to us, and your spineless argument has nothing to stand on.

    And why are the Duggars awesome? Simply because they support your viewpoint? Is that how shallow of a person you are? If you disagree with me and claim to have another reason, please feel free to comment back and elaborate. It’s rather hard to see exactly why you cheer on the sidelines for a family which is abusive to its members, sucks hundreds of taxpayer dollars in to fund their fundie lifestyle, and whores itself out to the public to leech attention and even more money from the public through the Discovery Channel.

  163. Beverly S. Hill Says:

    Looks to me like the Duggars gave birth to quite a large staff of slaves!

    These barbarians should be imprisoned for child abuse!

    Pathetic.

  164. Sherry Says:

    I bet these kids feel like they were born in hell. Just a carbon copy with no purpose in life but to be part of a big family freak show. What kind of God wills this surley not a good one.

  165. Ren Says:

    Michelle’s vagina is a freaking slip-n-slide.

  166. Cynthia Says:

    they even go ahead and call this child no. 18. just another no. in their book of reproduction.

  167. Louri Says:

    think it is wrong the way the hand of all the babies to the older children. Then they have a 17 yr. old making lunch for almost 20 people and an 18 yr old making dinner. These kids have to clean, and raise the younger ones. They have a strict schedule. When are they allowed to be children? When do they play? This reminds me of a cult. It seems these kids are instructed on when to smile, laugh etc. When you look in the Duggars eyes they all look vacant.

    What I would like to know is what is going to happen if something happens to the parents? What is going to become of the children? Foster homes. Or did the parents will the younger kids to the older kids? These children do not have a normal childhood and never will. I don’t mean material things either. I mean making friends, going to college (how will they afford it) going and playing baseball or going on dates.

    What really gets me is that I have watched all these specials. It sickens me that if any of these children want time with a parent, they have to go to the kitchen and “make an appt” by writing it down that they want more time with a parent to discuss something.

    This is just a sad family. I feel sorry for these kids

  168. Sharley Says:

    There IS a Heaven and a Hell.

    I agree with Sarah, Cathy. Prove it. Oh wait, you can’t, can you? What you believe is your choice, and if your faith is strong I say more power to you, but don’t come over here and try to force what some of us consider complete bullsh*t down our throats. Until you can come up with some definitive proof that there is a hell, I will continue to disbelieve you and think you are a gullible idiot.

    I’m sorry to sound so hostile, but people like Cathy (and the Duggars) just piss me off. All these blowhards who use religion as a very flimsy excuse for being blowhards are a large part of what turned me off to organized religion. No matter what the real ideals of a religion are, there’s always people that will use that faith as an excuse to be bigots, homophobes, jerks, and, like the Duggars, publicity-starved rabbits.

    I know there are rumors that one (or possibly two) of the siblings has been molesting some of the others. I have no idea how true this is, but if it is then I hope it gives the state an excuse to go in and get all those poor brainwashed, over-controlled children the hell out of there. Give them a chance to be children, not automatons—given how obsessed Michelle is with everyone being alike, they need a chance to figure out who they are as individuals.

    The saddest thing, though, is that I will bet you a lot of those kids will wind up unable to believe in anything. Even I have faith of a sort, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least some of those children turned into very bitter, very confused adults who will feel guilty because they don’t believe what they were taught as children. (I’ve seen this happen; the friend I mentioned in my last post and I used to talk a lot about the sheer level of guilt fundies build into their children’s minds.) Assuming any of those kids do make it out, they’re probably going to need YEARS of therapy to undo the damage their parents have been inflicting on them since birth.

  169. Sue Blue Says:

    Hey, “Cathy”, just a little question abut your Lovin’ God judging us. When your kids (and I’m assuming you have some, since you seem to applaud Duggar-style proliferation) don’t turn out the way you’d like them to, are you going to “judge” them? Strike them down? Throw them screaming into a lake of fire and watch them burn for all eternity? Is that the kind of parent you are? No? Why, that would be child abuse and murder — the worst kind!! Then why is it okay for God, our “Holy Father”, who supposedly created us in his image, to do this, and why do you worship such a being?

    Just for the record, I’m an atheist and have absolutely no worries that I will do anything but rot after I die, but even if I were wrong, I would not follow such a god. Better to burn for all eternity than be pals with a monster.

    Oh, and ask your pal Michelle The Amazing Bottomless Womb what she thinks about frying her kids in a lake of fire.

  170. Chris Says:

    Why is it nobody challenges the “happily flouting Christian values” and asks if God would really want them to sensationalize & profit from all of this?
    Speaking as a sane Christian, the whole thing is brutal. Someone stop them!

  171. Sue Blue Says:

    I think this family has some sort of half-assed notion that they’re “witnessing” for their faith by pimping their lifestyle on TV. If this blog and many others are any indication, it’s not being perceived that way. The majority of posts I’ve read, except on the most rabid fundie Christian sites, are not favorable. Rather than doing “Christian Values” a favor, they’re exemplifying every negative facet of Christianity in America today. What person in their right mind thinks that such a repressed, closeted, ant-like lifestyle is desirable?

  172. Sharley Says:

    I hate the “witnessing” excuse so much. So, so much. My mother-in-law is, like Chris, a sane Christian, and she HATES people like the Duggars and Jerry Falwell and…well, all those idiots. She says they give everyone else a bad name, and she’s not far wrong. I’m not the only person I know who has had the whole concept soured for them by fundie weirdness. It’s kind of ironic that all that rabid preaching these fundies are doing is accomplishing is pissing people off — the only people who actually listen to it are other fundies.

    I’ve noticed that the Duggars don’t affiliate themselves with any actual denomination, though — what’s up with that?

  173. Kathy Says:

    Can you imagine the stimulus check these people got? With all the children and themselves it would come to $5,700. It’s mind boggling that someone would have that many kids. I don’t think you could pay me to pop that many kids out my cooter.

  174. Cynthia Says:

    they won’t get anything for the kids over age 17 though,of which I think there is only one.

  175. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Sarah – Kira? Excellent choice of God. Personally, I’m still looking on the ground for my own odd little notebook.

  176. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Amazing how the announcement of #18 has driven the traffic to this thread WAY up. I’m starting to realize that blogging about the Duggars is a sure-fire way to get people visit your site. Indeed, I found this site last year googling for other people who think the Duggars are crazy.

  177. Sharley Says:

    LOL. Parrotlover, I found it the same way. I had told my husband they were going to pop out another sprog and then went looking for someone else I could snark with.

  178. Cynthia Says:

    The Duggars spout off J-O-Y. Jesus first, others second, yourself last. Ok friends, the Jesus part is them having kids “as God gives them” (as if they don’t know what causes that?!). Next is others second. I don’t see them doing this. The others, their kids, should come next, according to their own beliefs. Did they ever once sit down with those kids and say, “Hey, how do you feel about another bro or sis? After all, you’re going to be helping take care of him or her.” NO. They just keep poppin’ out baby after baby, as if it’s a race to see how many they can have before their Golden Eggs poop out. The older kids have no say in it at all. It’s just plain thoughtless.

    Yourself last. Nope, again. They’re putting themselves first.

    How can anyone look at this family and think they’re normal? Mom and Dad seem to be addicted to having babies. It doesn’t matter if they’re debt free and all. They could care less about anyone else. I don’t see any humanitarianism in them at all.

  179. Sarah Says:

    Parrot: Same here ;P I’m glad that someone else gets the joke ^^ The only Gods I will ever worship are Jashin and Kira-sama!

    Although I’m betting that the fundies are going to ban DN because it has someone trying to be God in it. And then all the Death Gods (Which, in the fundie mind, translates into demons), goth references, etc.

    But that depends on how popular the series gets here in the states too. But no doubt if it “brainwashes” enough of the impressionable children, then they will begin to bitch about it like with Harry Potter.

  180. yoyo Says:

    Just think what’s going to happen to the poor oldest girls when Mum starts having disabled kids! The likelihood is quite high as she gets older. So who looks after her Downs Syndrome child for the next 60 years? I think this family is disgusting, not the children, the parents. I’ve known very large families. I have a friend from Sudan (Animist) who has 44 siblings from 3 mothers, a Catholic friend with 11 siblings and an Orthodox Jewish friend who is one of 13 (two with disabilities). None of these families can give the children all the stimulation and attention that a smaller family can.

    With two of my own and working full time, I find it hard to be fully there all the times they need me. What happens to any child with needs in this careless fundie environment?

  181. Sharley Says:

    …My roommate just pointed out that the Goebbels also dressed their kids in matching clothes. That just makes the whole thing even creepier to me.

  182. Sue Blue Says:

    Not that I would wish it on the poor kid, but it would be interesting to see the reaction if their 18th is born with webbed fingers or no brain or something (Michelle’s bucking the odds already — she’s 41). It would be interesting to observe their xtian rationalizing — is God testing their faith with Job-like trials? Or did Michelle just have an impure thought or two while gestating? I bet you’d really see the medieval superstition come crawling out of the woodwork then. One thing you’ll never see is either Duggar parent blaming themselves for knowingly, irresponsibly pushing the limits. After all, as many have pointed out, it’s not about the kids themselves; it’s all about producing little Christian warriors as fast and furiously as possible.

  183. Barbara Says:

    Sue,

    Her chances of having a kid with a genetic issue like Down Syndrome is fairly high, but they would accept the child as a reward/challenge from god. The sad thing is that for many disabled children, a homeschool environment would probably not give them the education with a focus on future independence that they would need and deserve.

  184. sara Says:

    I wanted to stop by and thank a few of you for your comments. It’s no surprise Michelle is having another baby. It was rumored in April, and a good friend who knows the Duggars told me about this. For fear of a lawsuit – yes Michelle is like that, I can also say that one of the oldest children is engaged to marry, and the engagement is for two years.

    One of the reasons Michelle dresses all of her children in the same colors is not so they can be easily spotted, or so that everyone matches easily, it’s a systematic way of brainwashing in order to make everyone feel like they are not like anyone else in society. That they are the chosen ones, who are set apart from everyone else who is not like them. Michelle encourages this dress code whenever she speaks with other parents.

    And Barbara, if she did have a child with Downs, she wouldn’t be taking care of the baby. Her oldest children would.

  185. Barbara Says:

    I wondered how long it would be until we saw a ” 26 kids and one’s gettin’ hitched” special, guess it’s not too far off. I suppose it makes sense to marry the kids off as soon as possible to a nice young fellow fundie, before they have a chance to question anything, before they could get a real education ( not an unaccredicated college degree via the internet ) and I suppose there are other famlies they know who would love to marry in to the Duggar cult.

  186. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Sarah – Have you heard that in other countries (I believe China and possibly Korea), kids have gotten in SERIOUS trouble for writing other kids and teachers names in their notebooks, DN-style? Oh, imagine what will happen when the first over-hyped case of a US kid who watches late-night anime on [AS] does that. It won’t beat the ATHF LED-sign debacle, but you know [AS] is just waiting for the free publicitiy of fundies getting all bent out of shape… Why, kids watching DN may become a mini “kids playing D&D turn into Satanists” thing. Good times!!!

  187. Parrotlover77 Says:

    sara – I was confused by your comment on the lawsuit and also the marriage. Is this marriage arranged? I’ve always wondered if the Duggar kids will be allowed to choose their mate. Also, what fear do you have about the lawsuit? Slander?

  188. Sharley Says:

    I’m with Parrotlover — how could she have met anyone to marry? I was under the impression the Duggars didn’t let their kids out like, at all. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did arrange marriages.

  189. Cynthia Says:

    I thought it was the oldest boy that was to marry, since they said he had a surprise?

  190. Sarah Says:

    Parrot: Yeah, I know…I’m not allowed to bring my copies into school even though it’s just for a cosplay thing ^^ but I write names for the sake of stress-relief. Seriously, writing someone’s name down and saying “MUHAHAHA!” in a loud deep voice does wonders. XD Maybe I’m just off the deep end though.

    However all that got worse with the “Manga Murder” in Belgium. I believe they found a guy’s lower extremities with a note next to it saying “Watashi wa Kira dess” (I’m currently taking Japanese 101, the sentence is actually incorrect. “D-E-S-U” is the correct spelling). I’m not sure if you heard it on the news, but it sparked a lot of publicity. Funny thing is, it wouldn’t ever connect to DN if the note hadn’t been there.

    I swear…it’s like the fundies blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine…total complete and utter bullshit.

  191. Cynthia Says:

    Sara, thank YOU for posting, and please continue to do so if you can. People need to know the truth about this family, and it’s a shame nothing can be done about them. The children deserve a chance to be in the real world, in mainstream society, and they deserve a decent education. Instead, they’re shielded and treated as clones of their parents, and they have far too much responsibility in running the house. They seem to have no time to just be children.

    I doubt those girls are going to want to wear dresses for the rest of their lives, nor would I be surprised if any of the children don’t care to follow in the parents’ footsteps and have tons of kids themselves.

    They can’t control them forever. And with the rate of pregnancies Michelle’s undergoing, I don’t think it’s going to be long before she suffers some serious health problems. In short, it’s not going to be long before the bubble on their parents’ perfect world bursts, and then the whole house of cards will come falling down.

  192. Parrotlover77 Says:

    I hadn’t heard about the Belgium thing. So somebody performed a murder and in their delusion put a DN-style note next to the body? That’s awful. The truth is the murder would have happened anyway, no matter what delusion the murderer had about Shinigami and magical notebooks. Gimme a break. It’s like the “blame school violence on video games” thing. Totally unfounded. No research supports pop media causing violence. I’d be so bold as to say the bible itself causes more violence and death than all other media combined.

    Where can I get a DN looking notebook? I want to keep one at work and see what people say when I bring it into meetings. ;-) “Parrotlover’s supervisor will give him a big raise at 7:30pm…” ;-) Nah, I actually like where I work. They’ll probably think it’s hillarious when I explain what it is.

  193. Sue Blue Says:

    Odds are that even having a child with Down’s Syndrome or other problems wouldn’t stop the Duggars from punching out more. Whether they would see it as a challenge from God or Satan wouldn’t really matter — a single bent arrow hardly matters when your quiver is stuffed full. And there are lots and lots of girls to help mom out with any sickly babies. Hell, by the time the girls turn eighteen they could probably qualify as nurse-midwives.

    And that’s another one of my pet peeves with that creepy hive. The boys seem to have plenty of time to run around outside, making messes, breaking stuff, and generally acting like little boys…but the girls, from the time they can walk, must wear dresses (hard to play roughly in a skirt), and spend all their time cleaning up messes, cooking, sewing and babysitting. Wow — that’s a fulfilling life! I’m surprised that they have time to learn to read and write. If I were one of these girls I would seriously consider getting my tubes tied as soon as I hit eighteen.

  194. Sarah Says:

    Parrot: It’s like how John Lennon’s murder was the book murder simply because what’shisface was carrying a copy of ‘Catcher in the Rye’. Without the note, it would have just been treated as another murder.

    Yeah, how many crimes have been performed in the name of the perpetrator’s own personal ‘Lord Almighty’?

    I got both of mine off ebay for real cheap. However I did make one for my friend by buying some black and white spray-paint, a cheap notebook and tape (Spray the top of the notebook white, let it dry, then cut out the letters from the tape and stick it over the white, then spray the whole thing black, let it dry, and then peel off the letters)

  195. Aubrey Says:

    I want to puke every time I see hear about these people. They are incredibly selfish. They don’t really believe children are a gift from God, otherwise they would be adopting the children who don’t have homes or families. They only care about popping out their own lilly white children.

    I was shifted from foster home to foster home since the age of 7, and it disgusts me to think that families like the Duggars could take in the thousands of kids who are in need of loving, permanent homes, but instead make more kids.

  196. rissu Says:

    Unfortunately, the Duggars follow the Quiverfull lifestyle and the teachings of Gothard, who proclaims that “Adopted children are affected by the sins of their natural parents, and these sins are usually very severe.”

    Like you Aubrey, I am disgusted by this family and how they outwardly portray themselves as innocent, loving, and pure… but the claims of living debt free (of course you would live debt free as well, when TLC, Discover, et al. are providing you with vacations, homes, house supplies, etc.) and other things I find vile, like the treatment of the girls as basically slaves/maids/nannies — really does not show to me that this is really a loving “Christian” family.

    I was adopted, would they think of me as being unclean? As Sara said above, there is more to this family than what is portrayed and I would love to find out more and not all the sunshine and butterfly stuff.

  197. Hannah Says:

    Disgusting how women in the 21st century are still being raised and used as livestock to populate chauvinistic religions. And how is the function of those frumpy dresses in any way different from that of a burka?

  198. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Hannah — It gets worse. Have you seen fundie bathing suits? Good times…

    http://www.wholesomewear.com/page-4.html

    Careful, mom, you are almost showing some knee!!!

  199. Barbara Says:

    If I am not mistaken, that’s a Duggar girl (can’t remember which one, but her name starts with J…) modeling the suit in the middle. I have yet to see the “Duggars Go to the Beach” episode, but would imagine that’s exactly what they wear.

  200. Sharley Says:

    Holy shit, those swimsuits…even my Mormon relatives don’t wear anything that stupid. What’s the point in having a swimsuit, if it’s just going to be like some kind of short dress? Just jump in in your clothes and save your money.

    I really, really hate how the “modesty” issue in almost any religion is so heavily skewed toward women. It always seems like there are so many more restrictions and even unwritten little rules about feminine modesty than there are about male, and it drives me nuts. I don’t understand why we’re apparently meant to be ashamed of our bodies, as though there were something wrong with us, while the men apparently get off pretty light. Then again, it’s religion; of course it doesn’t make sense.

  201. Barbara Says:

    It’s completely and totally sexist. Women must cover up lest men get a look at their ankles and become so aroused that they cannot control themselves.

    I don’t imagine Jim Bob is walking around the beach in a Borat-like marble bag but I bet he gets to wear normal swim trunks that don’t make him stand out like some kind of freak.

  202. JBunny Says:

    What is the problem with Jim Bob wearing a condom?? I mean, seriously!

    Is he too “Godly” or “Good” to wrap his baby-maker? Why not? Oh… BECAUSE IT KILLS HALF A PERSON!!

    I get it…

  203. S. Says:

    What is the problem with Jim Bob wearing a condom?? I mean, seriously!

    It kills the ‘they need an excuse for no birth control’ issue.

    I seriously wonder about the pill story anyway.It seems like nothing more than a starting point for them to take up in regards to using no birth control at all.

    After all,how easy would it be to say,”ok,the pill caused me to abort,so,I’ll just go to another form of b.c. that can’t do that” ?

    Oops,no excuses can come of that one.

  204. Shanna Says:

    I thoroughly enjoyed reading “sara’s” posts, as she seems to have “inside” info. I was surprised that the mom never yells, however, when they have that vidoe announcement of #18, her voice is raspy..maybe that was from a screaming episode. I agree with most of the posters here..I don’t think the Duggars are concerned about the long term lives of their kids. It’s almost like a contest to them to see how many they can squirt out. I can see how some of these kids may later rebel in adulthood, and have difficulty with self control, since everything in their life is now controlled by their parents. I also dont understand why it is so eveil to show your body, i mean, if you have that mindset, what is gonna make you want to take your clothes off and feel good about your naked body in front of your husband?

  205. S. Says:

    Shanna,wouldn’t you just love to see what kinds of gifts the girls will get for their wedding showers? I bet it’ll be lots of frumpy,flannel gowns! LOL.Throw in a few frumpy aprons as well.And they’ll probably already go ahead and get them some maternity dresses,so they can be ready for the start of baby producing.(Can’t wear pants,yanno). lol.

    Would someone care to tell me WHY this family is on Discovery HEALTH??? It’s not healthy to have baby after baby!! Nor are the children being raised in a psychologically healthy manner.It’s quite an oxymoron to put them on this channel.

  206. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Apparently shows about babies and birth are a cash cow for Discovery Health (unfortunately, because I thoroughly enjoy the non-baby shows). TLC seems to get first-run status for these things, then Disc Health repeats them over and over and over into oblivion. I’ve written them before about that, but, well, you know, money talks and ratings are money!

  207. S. Says:

    Parrot,I agree,and I’ve thought about writing Disc. Channel,but I doubt it would do any good.If this family fell apart tomorrow,I doubt they would air any of it,only the happy (or at least the appearance of happy) and healthy make money for them in this ytpe of venue,so they’d probably just overlook it if Michelle or the baby died from childbirth,(or for any other reason,for ANY of them,for that matter).

  208. Sue Blue Says:

    Is that “wholesome” swimwear company for real? Those things look like dresses made in a high school home-ec class about 30 years ago! And where are the modest swimtrunks for men? Let me get this right – female tits, bellies and thighs offend, but hairy man-boobs and beer guts don’t? These people are sick!

  209. Sue Blue Says:

    That whole swimwear thing reminded me of the time, about fifteen years ago, that I took my kids to Magic Mountain on a really scorching hot summer day. There was a group of people ahead of us in line that caught my eye. The women were swathed head-to-toe in what looked like Iranian chadors made out of gray sweatshirt material. Only their eyes, noses and mouths showed. They were accompanied by several men and boys dressed in polo shirts, shorts and sandals. It was a long, long line for that roller coaster. A hundred degrees in the shade. I kept waiting for one of the women to pass out, but Muslim women must be a tough lot. And I kept getting angrier and angrier, seeing those men enjoying themselves, sipping ice-cold sodas (the women had nothing) just as comfortable as could be, while the women stood silently, never even looking anyone in the eye.

  210. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Yea, the sexism is most of Islam really pisses me off too. The sad thing is that (like with female circumcision), the elder women play a large role in perpetuating it too! I find myself defending Islam often from ignorant rednecks that think it’s only about bombing the USA. And it’s sad because there is so much wrong with Islamic traditions (such as those) that we can’t cut to the real meat of the issue a lot of times because we’re fighting the “they all want to bomb us” stereotypes.

  211. S. Says:

    And where are the modest swimtrunks for men? Let me get this right – female tits, bellies and thighs offend, but hairy man-boobs and beer guts don’t? These people are sick!

    LOL,Sue Blue,and I guess male packages wouldn’t offend them,either.I bet the men get to wear tight swim trunks,or even bikini-type swim trunks.

    But how dare those women wear anything revealing that might turn the men on!!

  212. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Lord, please let Mr. Jim Bob Duggar never wear a speedo. That is an image that will never be sanitized from my brain.

  213. HI Says:

    Hi. Sounds like some of you are Jewish. Is that so?

  214. S. Says:

    Lord, please let Mr. Jim Bob Duggar never wear a speedo. That is an image that will never be sanitized from my brain.

    Amen,and amen.

  215. S. Says:

    Oh my.The swimsuits are hilarious!At the most,I was expecting to see a one-piece with a skirt on it.Not a whole dress! LOL.Looks like they’re water-repellent,too,unless I’m just not seeing that right.

  216. LadyRavana Says:

    I did a Google search “Duggar Family-contributing to overpopulation” and bingo! I managed to find this website. (BTW, hilarious blogpost, even if it is a year old.)

    Just want to say, I agree wholeheartedly that these people are sickeningly, digustingly irresponsible…and watching the specials done on them, I’d watch in sick, morbid fascination, thinking “Gee…don’t they think about overpopulation?” And they had the creepy, vapid, brainwashed look.

    Sarah’s posts have been particularly enlightening, and have confirmed a lot of my suspicions. If people knew the the truth, I’m sure they’d lose their audience overnight.

    I think they’re shameless, sick, and exploitive, finding creative ways to leech off the system.

  217. S. Says:

    I read where Jim Bob admitted Michelle weaned the babies early so she could get pregnant again.So I don’t buy that these pregnancies just happen.Dr’s recommend BF’ing for at least a year,so you’d think if they were all that politically correct,she’d at least do that.

    They also recommend at least 2 yrs between pregnancies,in order to get the body back to normal again,especially nutritional-wise.But then I suppose anyone who has horrible scar tissue and has trouble finding a Dr. to deliver (that happened in ’05 for them,with Johanna’s birth),isn’t likely to listen and will try anything.

  218. LadyRavana Says:

    Of course they’re not gonna listen! They’re delusional Fundies! Common sense or sound medical advice need not apply.

    Oh, I’m sure that it applies to OTHER women, but oh no, not Michelle! God forbid (literally) SHE ever accept personal responsibility for her body, or her choices, nooo, it’s all up to GOD. Michelle knows her body, God wouldn’t let anything bad happen to HER.

    Bleh. These people really are parasites.

  219. S. Says:

    Right on,I’m sure their thinking is that if God allowed her to get pregnant,then she need not listen to the Dr’s…it’ll be ok.Throw all common sense out the window.

    It seems they searched till they found a religion that fit the excuses they needed for having baby after baby,not using birth control,homeschooling,etc.It seems they found the religion,not that *it found them,as it seems they want it to appear.

    As for the homeschooling..I have nothing against it,it’s just that it does personally benefit the parents.They don’t have to worry about buying the latest fashions,or the kids wanting what other kids have,school fees for this n that.I only have 2,and those can be a lot sometimes,even for public school!

  220. LadyRavana Says:

    The more I read about these Quiverfull types, the more disturbed I become.

    Okay…I’m thinking that should I ever have children, I’ll aim for three, and that’s IT. (Four will seriously be pushing it.) And should I want more children, and I have the resources, I’ll ADOPT. I’m not gonna pop out babies until my uterus falls out.

    You know, Michelle’s pushing 40 (or rather, just past forty) and her odds for having a baby born with Down’s Syndrome have shot up dramatically from when she was say, 35.

    And chances are pretty good this next pup she’s gonna drop is likely to have it. What’s more tragic is that poor, disabled baby is gonna be passed off to a “buddy” to be raised. I’m sorry, but a teenager SHOULD NOT shoulder the full responsibility and care of a younger sibling, especially one with special needs.

    Oh, and I’ve heard (from the Television Without Pity forums) that the Quiverfulls say “If God sees fit to give you a child with Down’s Syndrome, then you should welcome the opportunity as a “blessing” from God” Wha?!

    The whole setup is just plain…sick!

  221. Sue Blue Says:

    Flipping through the channels the other night, I couldn’t help but notice that TLC was replaying the Duggar Family Vacation episode for the nth nauseating time. Yet, for some masochistic reason I had to watch part of it, just so I could reaffirm to myself how truly grotesque is that whole parasitic parade. Especially stomach-turning was the way that wherever the “family” went, the tourist-trap toadies would rush out to greet them like long-lost loved ones – all for the camera, of course. And each Duggar spawn got golden Mickey Mouse ears at Disneyland, just for being part of a rolling freak show. Then they all went to the beach. The whole load of tripe would almost have been worth watching if they had actually donned their “modest” swimwear so I could laugh, but no such luck. Apparently it was too cold for the asexual female body armor, so they just wandered aimlessly around with their shoes off for a few minutes.

  222. S. Says:

    LOL Sue.What is is with the obsession with big families nowadays? I recall back when the mothers of the McCaughey septuplets and the Dilley sextuplets were the talk of the day,being featured on many tv shows and in many magazines.As if that wasn’t enough,nowadays they’d have to add at least twice the no. to their brood on order to compete with the attention the QF families get! Hmm,maybe another fertility treatment is in order for them? (j’king,those families knew when to stop!).

  223. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Okay…I’m thinking that should I ever have children, I’ll aim for three, and that’s IT. (Four will seriously be pushing it.) And should I want more children, and I have the resources, I’ll ADOPT.

    May I suggest that after two, you adopt the third? That way you are not contributing to overpopulation and helping a child in need simultaneously!

  224. LadyRavana Says:

    That’s a thought, ParrotLover.

    Of course…it’s a pretty big IF that I’ll even have children. Or marry.

    Barring the whole marriage children thing, my life-plan involves me dedicating myself to working with animals. :)

  225. S. Says:

    Awesome,Ladyravana!

    I foresee the QF’s next step to be taking fertility drugs to get pregnant with more than one.No more one baby at a time..they’ll have several at a time ! Over and over again ! Then they’ll start their own QF TV network.No need for specials…just QF TV 24/7!

    ugghhh!!

  226. LadyRavana Says:

    *shudders*

    Now, that is a truly disturbing image.

    You know, I’m getting tired of all the baby shows on Discovery Health. Baby this, baby that. A Baby Story. Runway moms. Deliver me. Babies: Special Delivery. Quadruplets, Gyah! More I can’t name off the top of my head.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love babies, but enough is enough! I swear every time one of those shows comes on, I smell the faintest whiff of baby powder.

    And well…I think that QF’s are supposedly against any and all forms of medical intervention to either prevent OR try to ensure pregnancy.

    …Doesn’t mean some couples don’t break the rules, and end up with a few sets of triplets or quads. :p

  227. Barbara Says:

    I thought I’d poke my head in to this thread and just mention that my husband and I are in Central Asia right now completing the adoption of our son ( 2 1/2 years old, correctible special needs ) and the orphanage has 3 special needs kids ( all blind, unfortunately as their future here is rather grim ) and no Christians beating down the door to adopt them. It puts a new perspective on Michelle’s insatiable appetite for breeding and makes me kinda sick…

  228. LadyRavana Says:

    Barbara-

    How wonderful that you’re doing that! You have a big heart, and I’m sure that little boy is very lucky to be adopted by you. :)

    Well, the thing is, adoption amongst the Quiverfulls is discouraged, if not outright forbidden, because of the BS that adopted children “carry the sins of the father/ birth parents.”

    You’re not the only one that’s sickened by it. It really is disgusting.

  229. S. Says:

    that’s just great Barbara!!! congrats on your new son !!

    …And well…I think that QF’s are supposedly against any and all forms of medical intervention to either prevent OR try to ensure pregnancy.

    ..…Doesn’t mean some couples don’t break the rules, and end up with a few sets of triplets or quads. :p

    ..true,and my thought is that if Michelle,(and the ones like her),have trouble getting pregnant,especially as they get older,that they’ll resort to use of drugs like clomid to stimulate the ovaries.
    She stops bf’ing early in order to get pregnant,I see no reason to believe she wouldn’t pull out all the stops if necessary.She seems to be in a race to see how many kids she can produce.
    I question if they really believe in the Gothard nonsense anyway.It seems nothing more than an excuse for their having baby after baby.Something I learned in psych is to forget what people *say…look at what they do ! And they don’t seem to be living it,esp. not the JOY thing ..at all.

  230. Barbara Says:

    I should correct something I said. What I should have said is that no FUNDIE is beating down the door to adopt any of these kids. Some of my fellow pre-adoptive parents in the same program ARE very nice, very good Christian families who believe in growing their families while helping children in need.

    But seriously, if anyone knows anyone interested in adopting otherwise healthy kids who happen to be blind ( and I am pretty sure these are NOT correctable sight issues ) please pass the word on. Here in Uzbekistan there is no specialized training for many disabled children and once they turn 16 they’ll be turned out on the street to fend for themselves.

  231. Parrotlover77 Says:

    That’s a thought, ParrotLover.

    Of course…it’s a pretty big IF that I’ll even have children. Or marry.

    Barring the whole marriage children thing, my life-plan involves me dedicating myself to working with animals.

    Good for you! Do what makes you happy. My wife and I are happily and proudly human-child-free, but instead have a wonderful flock of parrots that are our children. :-)

    (I know, “Parrotlover” having a family of parrots — shocking, isn’t it?)

  232. Parrotlover77 Says:

    I thought I’d poke my head in to this thread and just mention that my husband and I are in Central Asia right now completing the adoption of our son ( 2 1/2 years old, correctible special needs ) and the orphanage has 3 special needs kids ( all blind, unfortunately as their future here is rather grim ) and no Christians beating down the door to adopt them. It puts a new perspective on Michelle’s insatiable appetite for breeding and makes me kinda sick…

    Good for you, Barbara. You are truly a kind hearted individual to give a special needs child the home they deserve!

    Unfortuantely, (or perhaps fortunately) QFs would never do something like that.

    Although I know they say they would take on any child that “God” gave them, I truly wonder if QFs would rethink their birth control decisions if they were given, say, 10 kids with Down’s, instead of 10 healthy kids.

  233. Sarah Says:

    I dunno…if you had ten kids with downs then they would be able to garner even more sympathy from the media…

    And then act all humble by saying “They are God’s little gifts.” or something needlessly predictable like that.

  234. LadyRavana Says:

    Good for you! Do what makes you happy. My wife and I are happily and proudly human-child-free, but instead have a wonderful flock of parrots that are our children.

    (I know, “Parrotlover” having a family of parrots — shocking, isn’t it?)

    Parrots are awesome. :) How many do you have? I’m always amazed at their intelligence, what they can pick up, what they can learn. I’ve heard some species have intelligence on par with a kindergartner.

    Also, parrots are quite a responsibility-they’ve got lively minds, combine that with those impressive beaks, and they can get into a lot of trouble!

    Are all your birds rescues? It always breaks my heart when people take on these birds, and find they aren’t equipped to handle them.

    LOL, sorry to ramble at you, I have a habit of asking about people’s pets. Animal lover here, guilty as charged. ;)

  235. Sue Blue Says:

    I posted on one of the other Duggar threads on this blog about the reasons why the Druggers wouldn’t dream of adopting…Number one being that, as was pointed out above, children in need of adoption got that way because of their evil, whoring mothers who most likely were UNWED!!. A child of any other ethnicity or race would be absolutely beyond the pale. Every fundie knows that Gawd’s Chozen are all as white as Wonder Bread. They want to repopulate the world (or at least America) with lily-white Christian Warriors, and the only way they can be sure that they are producing said androids is to oversee their production from the very beginning.

    Kudos to you who see only the child in need, not the child’s race or circumstances, and are willing to do something to help. I’m convinced that people who adopt are much better parents than any brain-dead production-line womb like Michelle Duggar could ever be.

  236. S. Says:

    I second that,and Gothard sounds like the new Hitler!

  237. LadyRavana Says:

    Yeah…their ideology sounds disturbingly Third Reich-ish.

    *shudder* From what I’ve seen, ALL of the QF’s are as white as Wonder Bread. I don’t see any black couples embracing the QF ideals. Or Mexicans. Or a Chinese couple.

    I wonder if a Black couple, were they to approach a QF priest that they wanted to embrace this lifestyle, what would they say? Would they encourage, it or discourage it? Makes me wonder…

    What’s even scarier, I saw a white supremacist board where they were APPLAUDING this family. (I felt tainted after visiting it…it was a link in another forum.) That’s…really sad, because I don’t like to think that the Duggars would want THAT kind of publicity. But some part of me thinks that maybe they wouldn’t be totally adverse to it, because they do seemingly have some racist undertones to them.

  238. Parrotlover77 Says:

    LadyRavana – A couple are rescues, but I’ve taken a bit of a break from rescue birds for now. The heart can only take so many dying from disease/neglect before you need an emotional break. Several are from pet stores (before I knew better) and a couple are hand raised, and four were hatched from a couple I already had. I currently have 12. Yes they require a LOT of attention because they have VERY active minds (and beaks).

  239. Parrotlover77 Says:

    They want to repopulate the world (or at least America) with lily-white Christian Warriors, and the only way they can be sure that they are producing said androids is to oversee their production from the very beginning.

    I’ve heard more than one evangelical lament on the fact that brown people are growing in population as white people are diminishing. Oh, the horrors of horrors. It’s amazing how incredibly prevelant racism still is today.

  240. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Kudos to you who see only the child in need, not the child’s race or circumstances, and are willing to do something to help. I’m convinced that people who adopt are much better parents than any brain-dead production-line womb like Michelle Duggar could ever be.

    Amen.

  241. S. Says:

    And what are they going to do,should Obama win? Drown their sorrows in a tater tot casserole?! LOL.

    Seriously,I bet they’re taught to never,ever,under any circumstances…to vote for a Democrat! Ohh the horror…they’ll go straight to Hell!!

    It’s precisely that attitude that makes it one of the forerunning reasons that when I punch that card,I make it straight Dem all the way,no questions asked.

  242. LadyRavana Says:

    PL-

    12 birds, wow! I’ll bet your house is noisy.

    That sucks that you’ve lost some to disease and neglect. :( Damn it, why don’t people THINK about what they’re getting into when they take on an animal that’s a bigger responsibility than a dog or a cat?! Research, people, research! Do your homework!

    ….Sorry. That’s an old rant of mine. *cough* So few have compassion for animals these days, and too many stupid, irresponsible IDIOTS take on animals they really shouldn’t.

    Yeah…there’s a very, very dark underbelly to pet shops. I’ve vowed I will never set foot in one, nor will I ever work in one. (unless I have no other choice.)

  243. LadyRavana Says:

    I’ve heard more than one evangelical lament on the fact that brown people are growing in population as white people are diminishing. Oh, the horrors of horrors. It’s amazing how incredibly prevelant racism still is today.

    Disgusting? Yes. Surprising? No.

    *shakes her head* So…the WHITE people are God’s chosen, huh? Well, what happened to everyone being “equal” in the eyes of God. That children’s Bible song I had drilled into my head from like, five. “Red, yellow, black, and white, they are precious in his sight, doesn’t Jesus love ALL the little children of the world?” (paraphrasing here)

    I just thought of Animal Farm: “All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

    Only, replace “animals” with “people” and you’ve got the philosophy of those evangelists. (Well…some of them.)

  244. S. Says:

    They probably think they’re all raising a bunch of little republicans who are going to take over the USA,but truth is,I bet not.There are bound to be some free thinkers in the group,if not now then later on.It’s going to backfire on them.

    hmm,if the repubs win,I agree,it’ll probably mean another 100 yrs in Iraq..but I bet they won’t be for their kids going there! They’ll say it’s the adopted kids that should be the ones to go! Gotta fight those oil wars so the repubs can continue to be greedy and raise gas prices for their own gain,all the while lying to the rest of the usa about why we’re really there…no wonder Jim Blob was in politics,and apparently got his son interested,too.Thank goodness the voters had sense enough to get him out.

  245. Jon Says:

    The Duggars and every other xtian should be locked up and re-educated to appreciate tolerance, or at the very least have their children taken away from them so that the next generation has a chance of being normal. They are a threat to society.

  246. Alan Lanel Says:

    Although I am a Christian, I do wonder if raising children this way will cause them a lot of troubles as adults in the real world where there might have to think on their own. I should add here, I feel that this website’s moderator is giving these little buggers hell because he is a hater of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

  247. Ron Britton Says:

    Alan:

    I find it interesting that you have never met me, yet you somehow “know” that I hate Jesus. There is very little on this site that actually takes jabs at Jesus. There is much that criticizes the more irrational of his followers.

  248. LadyRavana Says:

    Jon, I’m inclined to agree with you, BUT take note that not all Christians are fundies. There are liberal, tolerant Christians that do indeed practice what they preach.

    However, as for locking away the fundies and their ilk? I’m with you all the way. ;)

  249. S. Says:

    I’ve been to counseling by qualified psychologists,and this is what they told me:

    whenever someone is raised by a hyper-religious family,usually one of two things occurs.Either the grown adult of this situation will totally adhere to the principals he or she was raised with,or they will totally rebel from it.

    So that’s why I say I believe there are going to be some free thinkers in these QF families,no doubt.It’s just too stifling a lifestyle to adhere to all of one’s life.For example,I seriously doubt the girls are going to want to wear dresses for the rest of their lives.They may do a lot of placating their parents once they move out.As in,”Yes mom,of course I still wear dresses all the time!” Meanwhile,they’re runing around in shorts,maybe even short shorts at that!

  250. Parrotlover77 Says:

    ….Sorry. That’s an old rant of mine. *cough* So few have compassion for animals these days, and too many stupid, irresponsible IDIOTS take on animals they really shouldn’t.

    Yeah…there’s a very, very dark underbelly to pet shops. I’ve vowed I will never set foot in one, nor will I ever work in one. (unless I have no other choice.)

    Interestingly enough (to bring this back onto topic), baby-centric families (like the Duggars) tend to have very little compassion for animals, whereas those with less (or no) offspring tend to have the most compassion. Just an observation of mine. I am not exactly sure why that is. I mean, you might think that having lots of children might bring out the paternal/maternal instinct out stronger and they might have more compassion for other species, but it doesn’t seem to be the case. Of course there are exceptions, but this is just an observation of mine.

    Right, pet stores (for the most part) are not healthy for the animals. Private breeders and rescue groups are the only places any animals should be adopted from. Economic pressure against selling the animals (despite the poor creatures having to endure the tortured life in the pet store) is the best way to get them to stop selling, overbreeding, and abusing them.

  251. Parrotlover77 Says:

    The Duggars and every other xtian should be locked up and re-educated to appreciate tolerance, or at the very least have their children taken away from them so that the next generation has a chance of being normal. They are a threat to society.

    Okay, that’s going a little too far. lol. Free thinking through brainwashing! Very clockwork orange.

    Although I’m borderline on their extreme level of fundyism being a form of mental abuse, I worry about taking kids away based on that… It could so EASILY go the other way (eg, taking kids away because they are NOT being taught God).

  252. LadyRavana Says:

    Interestingly enough (to bring this back onto topic), baby-centric families (like the Duggars) tend to have very little compassion for animals, whereas those with less (or no) offspring tend to have the most compassion. Just an observation of mine. I am not exactly sure why that is. I mean, you might think that having lots of children might bring out the paternal/maternal instinct out stronger and they might have more compassion for other species, but it doesn’t seem to be the case. Of course there are exceptions, but this is just an observation of mine.

    That is an interesting observation.

    This is a bit of an odd thought, but I do know that the Duggars have a German Shepherd, Jasmine. Now, most children that have pets, when that pet dies, they tell their kids they go to heaven. However, it seems that Fundies, and many other Christians, they say animals go to hell because they don’t have souls, or they have souls, but they aren’t “Saved” through the blood of Christ or some such BS.

    Yes, I know. That explanation is all kinds of stupid, but hey, these are Fundies, so not much makes sense where they’re concerned. (My relatively Fundie aunt gave me this explanation: ironically, she’s a pet lover.)

    And really, I’ll bet they value that poor dog about as much as a piece of furniture, and not as a cherished family pet.

    And that? Makes me sad. Animals really do deserve better.

  253. Lorain Says:

    Parrotlover77 should be sent to a mental institution for sociopaths. If these people want to have 19 kids then what the hell! Let them! The kids seem happy. The family is really wholesome yet everyone who watches the series says, “WHERE IS THE SEX AND THE DRUGS AND THE DISRESPECTFULNESS. WHY ISN’T ONE OF THE KIDS GAY??” Because they are fucking normal. (aside from the size of their family) Since when is it normal to be an Adulterating, drug addicted, sexually active family with children ranging from1-19?? If thats what the world has come to then that is sad. and if people are wondering where those elements are in a TV show then thats even sadder. Some of the people visiting these websites need to be more tolerant of this family. they are not hurting you! Personally I think this family is being ridiculed because of their christianity. For all you tolerance-ranting liberals, why don’t you take your own advice??

  254. Ron Britton Says:

    Lorain:

    What, exactly, did ParrotLover say that qualifies him for a stint in the looney bin? I see nothing in his comments to suggest such a treatment. You’re entitled to your opinion of who should and should not be incarcerated in mental institutions, but if you expect to convince us that your opinion is anything other than the mad ravings of a psychotic, you’ll have to explain yourself better.

    For all you tolerance-ranting liberals, why don’t you take your own advice??

    If you’d take the time to actually explore this site instead of reading the last few comments on a single page, you’d know that it is nothing like you portray it. You should have read this on the About page:

    This site is written by Ron Britton, who unapologetically believes in civil liberties, rationalism, and tolerance for those who are tolerant.

    Tolerance is freely granted to those who reciprocate. Extreme Christians who intolerantly hate everybody who isn’t exactly like them are not accorded the civility they deny to others.

  255. Sarah Says:

    Lorain: Why isn’t one of their kids gay? Well maybe because they are too scared to come out? Maybe none of them have that particular gene. Nice try.

    Also what is so wrong with “Civil Liberties” “Rationalism” and “Tolerance”? Explain please because from what I am assuming from the context you placed them in, you have no clue what any of the above phrases mean!

    Question: do you even know what a sociopath is? Describe the symptoms and then try to patch together your argument that Parrotlover is one through “physical evidence” in his comments. That is how an amateur “scientist” or a professional “psychoanalyst” would do it…but I doubt you have the qualifications for either position.

    Yes, the kids SEEM happy. Too bad seeming happy and BEING happy are two different things. I talk to a lot of people who are vair happy and kind cheerful people on the surface, but they hide a lot from the people who are closest to them because they are afraid of their reaction (This also goes back into the gay argument above). Family especially because they are the people you can return to when your friends have left (Supposedly anyway…) and no one wants to lose that (Supposedly).

    And what is wrong with being “sexually active”. You fail in this argument because you did not specify an AGE nor the persons involved. Now if you were talking about Jim Bob and his wife…well we ALL know they are sexually active.

    Humans are sexual beings, hon…Sorry to break it to you. Consensual sex is not a bad thing and despite what many fundie reports claim, toddlers are not having crazy diaper sex. If the Duggar girls want to be whores though, that is their right (Just like the right you mentioned before, about the Duggars being able to have as many kids as they wanted…I am correct?) and if the guys want to go and spread even more God-blessed Duggar seed around, they can! Oh you pesky rights you!

    Next, you cannot prove there are none of the mentioned activities going on in the Duggar house unless you are one of them. For all we know, they are crack addicts and Jim Bob whores himself out to Asian men through the Internet. Don’t act like you know everything about a family you only know from the happy Jesus-loving surface picture.

    We however, see even the surface picture as disgusting because it is selfish. Taking up money, public attention, and resources just so one (Two in this case) can fulfill their own particular religious agenda is not what we “disgusting liberals” see as fair to the rest of the world. Plus, it’s a perfect example of Christianity at its worst.

    Ever heard of “Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one”? Well I hoped I ripped you a few new ones because personally, your comment really pissed me off.

  256. Parrotlover77 Says:

    That is an interesting observation.

    This is a bit of an odd thought, but I do know that the Duggars have a German Shepherd, Jasmine. Now, most children that have pets, when that pet dies, they tell their kids they go to heaven. However, it seems that Fundies, and many other Christians, they say animals go to hell because they don’t have souls, or they have souls, but they aren’t “Saved” through the blood of Christ or some such BS.

    Yes, I know. That explanation is all kinds of stupid, but hey, these are Fundies, so not much makes sense where they’re concerned. (My relatively Fundie aunt gave me this explanation: ironically, she’s a pet lover.)

    And really, I’ll bet they value that poor dog about as much as a piece of furniture, and not as a cherished family pet.

    And that? Makes me sad. Animals really do deserve better.

    I never heard anybody say they go to hell. That’s a new one for me. Usually, I just hear they have no souls and, therefore, are no more sentient than a doorknob. Pretty callous, if you ask me. I certainly do not agree. The “soul” has never been sufficiently quantified for me, but if it does exist in some metaphysical “supernatural” way (ie, something special attached to living things that we can’t measure, observe, or explain), I do not see what gives humans any more likelihood of having one than a dog, cat, parrot, or rat! (–or rock for that matter, but I digress.)

    In fact, I’ve read on several websites religious animal lovers using bible quotes to “prove” animals have souls (surprised me after hearing so often about how they don’t have them). But you know the bible… contradicting itself from line to line to fit whatever political agenda one ascribes to! :-)

  257. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Parrotlover77 should be sent to a mental institution for sociopaths. If these people want to have 19 kids then what the hell! Let them! The kids seem happy. The family is really wholesome yet everyone who watches the series says, “WHERE IS THE SEX AND THE DRUGS AND THE DISRESPECTFULNESS. WHY ISN’T ONE OF THE KIDS GAY??” Because they are fucking normal. (aside from the size of their family) Since when is it normal to be an Adulterating, drug addicted, sexually active family with children ranging from1-19?? If thats what the world has come to then that is sad. and if people are wondering where those elements are in a TV show then thats even sadder. Some of the people visiting these websites need to be more tolerant of this family. they are not hurting you! Personally I think this family is being ridiculed because of their christianity. For all you tolerance-ranting liberals, why don’t you take your own advice??

    Whoa sweet. I’ve never been called a sociopath before. That’s quite a badge of honor. Now, I just need to find my drugs, rock and roll, and woman to cheat on my wife with, and I’ll be set. Oh, and a gold idol to pray to.

  258. Lorain Says:

    Wel I guess I would have come to that conclusion because parrotlover saide all “xtians” should be locked away and brainwashed. Personally I think thats insane but who knows what’s going on in your own mind. And to Sarah the question was rhetorical. As for the remark about seeing and being happy, i agree with you. But judging from your comment following you must be able to read their minds because you and several others are very certain that they are unhappy and locked in atorture chamber fully equipped with crosses and holy water Now to the comment about sexual activity. If you can believe this, it used to be unheard of for children around 12 to 15 to have sex. I suppose I should have amped my comment by saying, premature meaningless sex. WOW! So because they have a clean christian appearance they are definetly a cult full of bong pipe smoking, doobie rolling, sex maniacs. And the father is a child molester or something right? no! Im sorry for disrupting your crazy imagination but you are incorrect. You still do not present a point to me why these people are doing wrong by having so many children. You have merely told me outragous lies that you have no doubt accumulated from the other liberal nut jobs on this page.

  259. Ron Britton Says:

    Lorrain:

    You have merely told me outragous lies that you have no doubt accumulated from the other liberal nut jobs on this page.

    It is you who is telling the outrageous lies.

    parrotlover saide all “xtians” should be locked away and brainwashed.

    No he didn’t. That’s one.

    And to Sarah … you and several others are very certain that they are unhappy and locked in atorture chamber fully equipped with crosses and holy water

    Nobody said anything of the sort. That’s two.

    …it used to be unheard of for children around 12 to 15 to have sex.

    This has never been true. That’s three.

    they are definetly a cult full of bong pipe smoking, doobie rolling, sex maniacs. And the father is a child molester or something right?

    Again, nobody asserted that as a fact. That’s four.

    Unless you can actually cite any facts in your comments, your paranoid delusions are not welcome here. Us “liberal nut jobs” live in the world of facts and reality. You’re obviously more comfortable in the fantasy world of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Fox News. They all have web sites. Go hang out with them. You can trade your lies among yourselves and live in blissful ignorance of the real world.

  260. Sue Blue Says:

    Wow, lorrain really seems to be hung up on the whole sex thing. Why is that? Christians in general seem to be very worried about the sex they think everyone else is having all the time. According to them, it’s teh sex – gay, bisexual, premarital, you name it – that’s destroying the world. Yes…what people do with their genitals (specifically what women do with their bodies) is way more important than war, poverty, starvation, racism, injustice, global climate change and mass extinction. Wow, talk about putting sex on a pedestal. Yet, strangely, these same people have no trouble with a couple who screw and reproduce like rabbits (as long as said rabbits are christian), utterly without regard for their impact on anyone else. You can bet if a family of “godless liberals” was pumping out children like a factory production line, you’d hear no end of condemnation about their selfish ways.

    Only the most gullible really believe that what they see on TV is how things really are. Lorrain is sticking up for a family whose “image” is a construct, a “made for TV” fundamentalist fantasy, at least two of whose members are engaging in utterly irresponsible (and repulsively public) sex.

  261. Lorain Says:

    #1 Parrot lover did say that-”The Duggars and every other xtian should be locked up and re-educated to appreciate tolerance”
    #2″they are crack addicts and Jim Bob whores himself out to Asian men through the Internet.”
    #3Yes believe it or no children didn’t sleep around in the 60′s. Im sorry. now, If you’ve had sex at age twelve then I will admit defeat in this specific topic
    #4″they are crack addicts and Jim Bob whores himself out to Asian men through the Internet.”

    I find it hilarious how you are so sure of yourself yet so wrong. And since when is it a fact that this family is doing anything wrong.
    It appears that you are the one with the paranoid delusions. People like you are whining about this family and obviously creating false scenarios in your mind. I’d almost like to refere you to a phyciatrist. By the way, Thank you Im a huge fan of Sean Hannity and I would be honored to trade my so called “lies” with him.

  262. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Parrot lover did say that-”The Duggars and every other xtian should be locked up and re-educated to appreciate tolerance”

    Apparently the “scroll” feature of your browser doesn’t work. Either that or you are severely stupid. Either way, you, Lorain, are incredibly incorrect. I’m entirely against the George W. Bush style of governance and the fundie style of indoctrination.

  263. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Lorain also appears to lack the ability to distinguish between speculation (eg, I wonder if the Duggars do/are x, y, and z when the cameras are off) and statement/accusation (eg, the Duggars do/are x,y,z). How does one get through life not being able to distinguish the two?

  264. Parrotlover77 Says:

    If you can believe this, it used to be unheard of for children around 12 to 15 to have sex.

    Crap, I wasn’t that lucky back in middle/high school. Sigh.

  265. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Why are you so upset when someone has a different view? If too many people oppose you on this page, will you “close this thread” as well?

    Ron closed the other Duggar thread because it was like TWO YEARS OLD, the discussion was incredibly off-topic, and the discussion was going in circles (nothing new was being posted). It’s his blog, he makes the rules. If you want an infinite open discussion on how ignorant you can be with regard to the science of Evolution, start your own blog.

    As far as dissenting opinion is concerned, I’ve never seen Ron NOT allow somebody to express their opinion (afterall, you just did). He just gets tired of the SAME COMMENTS employing the same logical fallacies being posted AD NAUSEUM. I can’t say I disagree.

  266. Sue Blue Says:

    Lorrain, where do you get the idea that there was some ideal back-in-the-day America where no one had sex as teenagers? My great-grandmother, born in 1886, was married at fifteen and had three children before she was twenty. And no, she wasn’t some slutty Lolita. She came from Norway a baptized Lutheran, married into a devout Lutheran family, and raised her children accordingly. (And all of them were conceived and born after she was married, in case you’re wondering.) This was not uncommon, right into the 1920′s. In fact, most people throughout history married girls off as soon as they started mentruating, because that was the sign that they were sexually mature. These days we’re more enlightened – not because of any Christian influence, but because, thanks to science and psychology, we know that people are not emotionally and mentally mature until they reach their twenties or even thirties. Also, teenagers don’t have the financial wherewithal to support a family. So why do you think that the writers on this blog are promoting some kind of wild, sexual free-for-all society just because we condemn the thoughtless, selfish reproduction of the Duggars?

  267. S. Says:

    Oh there was sex going on in teens back in the olden days…the girls just got sent off to a home till they gave birth,and the baby was adopted out.Excuses were made within the family as to where their daughter was,until she could return, looking non-pregnant again.

  268. S. Says:

    I’ve said I was concerned about the Duggars kids.It’s dysfunctional in many ways.I have a right to be concerned.

    And anyone in the entertainment industry can tell you that the picture painted on tv isn’t showing the whole, true story.Only the rosy parts.How many bags of garbage are these ppl putting in the landfill every week?How many diapers,too? (they could use a diaper service and still not have to wash them!).How much space does that add up to per yr,and just how long does it take for it to degrade? (esp. the diapers!) Do they recycle? I haven’t seen any evidence of that.Nor are they even doing basic things like growing their own food and avoiding processed ones.Do they really need 9 vehicles? What about all that pollution?And so on and so forth.

    Further problems I see w. the Dug’s are mainly: bs excuses for not using birth control and popping out baby after baby;proclaiming they believe in all things good,but yet not adopting due to Gothard beliefs;using the buddy system instead of being hands-on parents…passing off the babies to the older kids so Michelle can have time for the newest one,(she even stops b-feeding early so she can get pregnant again),not thinking or even asking the older kids how they feel about taking care of another bro or sis…sheltering the kids from society far too much and making them dress like dwebs …lack of education due to using the Gothard material homeschooling program…etc. I could go on.
    The oldest is 20 and says he wants to be a lawyer…has it ever occurred to them that he should already BE in college right now?? My guess is the homeschooling put him at a disadvantage compared to other students.So he’s selling used cars right now.wow.

  269. Sarah Says:

    WOW LORAIN! Way to take my comment and completely misinterpret it (Gives the thumbs up)

    I clearly labeled all assumptions as well…ASSUMPTIONS and for you to say that I am taking them as literal is clearly ignorance of the basic principals of debating.

    And hon, we know what the parents are doing is horrible. These kids will never know what the hell the real world is like and they are socially, emotionally, and mentally screwed unless they stay inside the nice cross-lined fence that mummy and daddy have put up around them their entire lives. Also if you read any of the other comments, some people who have met Michelle have been posting their finds on her way of ‘parenting’

    And I was going to post the whole ‘kids used to be married off to fifty-year olds and it was all fine and dandy with the world’ argument, but Sue Blue beat me to it. Ah well, she presented it better than me.

    Also for the comment of Parrotlover’s: he said TOLERANCE! He is not trying to convert them, he is trying to get them to acknowledge the existence and accept others and their differences! READ THE ENTIRE LINE OVER!

    edilsb: When you debate, you have to present facts as WELL as opinion. Any dumbass can have an opinion on something, but if they are going to try and ‘oppose us’ they have to have an EDUCATED opinion. They have to know what they are talking about and be able to support their arguments, otherwise it is pointless to debate them. That is why we have trouble with people who ‘oppose us’ because they almost never present an actual argument.

    As some one who took a vair long debating course in junior high…I know vair well that all it takes to gift wrap a victory to your opponent is to stray from what you know and simply spout off what you personally feel is right. (And feeling right isn’t the same as being right. We’ve learned this from history: Slavery, oppression of women, etc)

  270. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Why do YOU think they are having the number of kids they’re having?

    Wow did you really ask that? You know when a daddy bee and a mommy bee love each other VERY much, they kiss and then the stork puts a baby bee into the mommy bee’s stomach. Thankfully, since girl bees are inferior to man bees and should be subjugated to the man bee’s will (God Bee says so), the mommy bee’s stomach acid doesn’t digest the baby bee. Nine months later, a baby bee comes out of the mommy bee’s tummy. If the baby bee ever misbehaves, the parent bees stone him or her to death. The end.

  271. Parrotlover77 Says:

    More importantly, how are you specifically affected by it anyway? I know the reasons (conjecture, I might add) that people post on this site… and they don’t hold up.

    Good lord. How many times do we have to bring up resource footprint and overpopulation???!!!

  272. Parrotlover77 Says:

    They are not in debt. They are not using the welfare system.

    That is, of course, if you don’t count the mountains of free crap that they get on the teevee specials as “welfare.”

  273. Parrotlover77 Says:

    The bottom line is that if this were a Muslim family, a Hindu family, a Buddist family, or a family of any other race, ethnicity, or belief system BESIDES Christian… you people would say ABOSOLUTELY NOTHING about it. It’s not the Duggars you are offended by, specifically, but what they believe in… God.

    Christians are the ones currently trying to rewrite the U.S. Constitution. Europeans are the ones having the problems with Muslims attempting to rewrite their laws. If this was a site more focused on the degradation of European tolerance and liberalism due to Islamic fundamentalism, you would find many more posts in that flavor. But, rest assured, no crackpot cult trying to reshape the world in their twisted worldview gets a free pass.

  274. Parrotlover77 Says:

    I’m glad you know the Duggars so well that you can factually say one (or more, you didn’t specify) is gay and that they are simply too afraid to come out.

    Fundies lack the ability to yet again distinguish between speculation and assertation. Must have something to do with this study:http://www.nyu.edu/public.affairs/releases/detail/1703

  275. Parrotlover77 Says:

    edilsb – Your first of the last three comments makes no sense. Are we looking at the same website? Is there a like a fundie web proxy that translates that into English?

  276. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Who, specifically, is trying to “rewrite the US Constitution”? I haven’t seen that, though you can, no doubt, send me to a liberal site speculating such nonsense.

    LOL! You proved my last point from the previous round. Excellent.

    Anyway, I wasn’t talking to you… I was talking to Sarah.

    Well, I never! **passed out onto the fainting couch**

    By the way, did you take a Jr. High debate class?

    When the going gets tough, the weak write ad hominem attacks.

  277. Parrotlover77 Says:

    edslib – “Further studies show” gives you new medical treatments each year. “Solid beliefs” gives you witchdoctors blowing spirit smoke in your face to chase out the evil cancer spirits.

    I’ll take Door #1.

  278. J.R. "Bob" Dobbs Says:

    Parrotlover77: Actually, in Europe, they’re also dealing with Christian fundamentalism which has resulted from further Muslim attempts to influence government there.Take the Netherlands for instance.

    edlisb: Take a look at Mike Huckabee.

    By holes you mean concepts that make no sense because they can’t understand them.

    “It doesn’t matter if jackass is Xtian,Jew,Muslim, or atheist. Their gods and prophets are just as false as those of everyone else.”

  279. Parrotlover77 Says:

    JR – I’ll have to do some reading! Thanks for the tip!

  280. Sarah Says:

    I’m glad you know the Duggars so well that you can factually say one (or more, you didn’t specify) is gay and that they are simply too afraid to come out. Also, point me to a study that’s “found” the gayness gene. While you’re at it, tell me why some people have gone from homo to hetero… or is there a half n’ half gene too? Have you seen a study finding a “fundie” gene? Would my beliefs be OK then if I was genetically predisposed this way?

    Obviously you took everything I said as fact. I CLEARLY stated that those were assumptions. Do not act as though I have not labeled that statement as such.

    And yes, there is a mutation that causes homosexuality. Scientists have been able to manipulate genes to create several animals that are homosexual. Look it up. As for the ‘homo turned hetero’ unless you know these people inside and out (AKA, are one of them) then you can’t really say that they are ‘turned’ because they claim that it was God that helped them. Unless you can prove that God exists, then you cannot validate this as a practical cure for homosexuality.

    Also why do these people decide to turn hetero? The only reason I’ve ever seen for this attempt is God…no one just does it because they ‘don’t want to be gay’ it’s because it’s seen as wrong in the eyes of their religion and their God. Give me an instance where someone just ‘didn’t feel like being gay anymore’ and switched sides of their own opinion.

    As for fundies, it’s called ‘environment’. The two things that influence a person are genetics and environment…if a child is taught that it is ok to steal all its life, then it will see that as being ok. I was raised agnostic but my extended family is full of orthodox Jews (The good part of that influence though allowed a lot of time to be spend on our education which my grandparents fully supported). However, the reason I turned atheist was because in my family, I was taught to always stand up for myself and that math and science is the closest we have to the ‘truth’ of the world. I grew up with this mentality and so it reflect in my behaviors and arguments of today. It’s a lot harder for someone’s opinions to change as they grow older because every human reverts back to what they learned as a child. We soak things up as kids because it’s a survival tactic.

    Religion is only negative when it tries to control the lives of others in my opinion, although it is pretty educated considering history and all the different religions that ended up killing people.

    There is no fundie gene, but in some ways it spreads like a virus.

    Again, you say you know a lot of people who are fine on the surface but tortured beneath… we all do. Does that mean you factually KNOW that the Duggar kids feel this way and are hiding it? Of course you do, because you told me that to debate you need facts. That’s what your Jr. High debate class said.

    Like I said above. I was making a statement that I never claimed was FACT. Actually reading through my comments thoroughly might prevent future mistakes like this.

    Is this an example of an educated opinion, backed with facts? People with Christian morals, or “fundies”, as you so lovingly call us, hold certain beliefs about sex being for a married man and woman. I, personally, think people should wait until they are married to have sex. However, people are free to do whatever they want (sometimes suffering the consequences). It doesn’t affect me… just like the Duggars don’t affect you. Also, I’ve never seen the many “crazy diaper sex” studies… can you give me the link?

    This was once again an assumption. My point with this comment was that Lorain seems to say that everyone outside of the Duggars (and Christians in general) is smoking pot, having sex, etc, etc.

    Although saying that marriage=true love is a horrible misconception. My parents were together for 23 years and they just divorced eight months ago. Even a long and fairly good marriage can break down and end badly.

    I COULD point you to several studies about the effects of pre-marital sex, how it can negatively hinder healthy future relationships, etc… but you would simply dismiss it.

    And no, I don’t dismiss the studies that waiting a bit before losing your virginity is better because waiting means that you are more likely to get to know the person you are with and determine if you want to be with them for a long time. Basic logic can tell you this, you don’t need to reference a study.

    And no, when you offer ACTUAL proof, then I don’t dismiss an argument.

    The truth is, I do present educated opinions… you simply label them NOT because they conflict with yours.

    Actually your arguments are against statements which I labeled as assumptions. My goal with those comments was to prove to Lorain that hers is not the only assumption one can make if you looked at the situation. If you didn’t see that and found it unclear, then I apologize and I will try to make my comments more obvious in the future.

    The fact based part of my argument was that we have seen people who have met the Duggars who have discussed their style of ‘parenting’ with us openly, and we also have the statistics that prove that kids this isolated would be screwed if they ever left this bubble.

  281. Sarah Says:

    You have “seen people” who have met the Duggars? Do they live in the Duggar’s town? Did they travel there with the intention of meeting people the Duggars know? I guess I can’t prove you wrong, but since you are allowed your assumptions and I can only talk in fact, I have to take you at your word. However, my “assumption” (if you’ll permit me what with the double-standard you hold me to) is that neither you nor anyone posting on this site has met or talked to the Duggars. I reject your saying that you have “seen people who have met the Duggars” and know these kids are in agony due to the way they’re being raised.

    Actually I am not saying that you assumptions are wrong; however, the statistics are against you. I am not saying you assumptions are wrong and that mine are right (Mine were used for the sake of showing Lorain that you could do the same thing but holding a different opinion). Look up religion based childhood trauma. That is what I take my arguments from.

    I’m assuming that that is an assumption on your part, and by your own definition of “debate”, there are no provable facts in what you are saying about them… therefore you just lost the “debate”.

    And what facts have you brought to the table, my friend? The only thing I’ve offered is statistics based on surveys and the testimonies of others because as far as we know, the Duggar kids

    It’s interesting that you guys never tire of telling me my assumptions are wrong (and your’s are right) while not actually responding to the “meat” of my argument. You simply state that I don’t use facts and you shouldn’t have to respond to me because I don’t simply swallow your crap, AD NAUSEUM. I think you know that what I’m saying is that none of you have any business stating as fact what you “know” about them. I’ve seen the same shows you have, and I’ve seen NO evidence that they are a unhappy or screwed-up family. You interpret what you see through your own bias.

    For the first part of this: Read the above statement. I never said your assumptions were wrong (You were the one claiming that about mine actually…) and I already gave my reasoning for even using them. If it isn’t good enough for you then I’m sorry, but there is nothing I can do about that.

    Define your opinion of “screwed up”. What I was saying before was that these kids are going to have problems if they stepped out into the real world. They are isolated from everything outside of religion and if they moved away or decided to stray from that path then they would be lost and unable to navigate themselves around without assistance from one of their own. That is unhealthy to me.

    And what have I not responded to? I believe I’ve been addressing all your issues.

    Again, since they don’t affect you in any way, other than you are “bothered” by them, what is your point in all of this? You guys bug me quite a bit… I’m not going to start a website devoted to slander and lies.

    I am bothered because these people are celebrities and are taking advantage of things that normal families would never get. I personally find it horrible that simply because they are religious, they get the support of everyone and their mum while others are starving and working their asses off to pay rent while the Duggars get to breed like rabbits and never have to worry about expenses because others are covering it for them because they are God-fearing folk. That is why I care. I’m sure everyone else here has their own reasons and would love to tell you all about them if you ask.

    If we bug you then why do you still come here?

    Also I did not understand your last comment…you don’t want to make a website of lies and…what!?

  282. Sarah Says:

    Forgot to add that ‘rejecting’ a claim is hardly what I call good debating. Now if you debunked it, that would be different.

    And I never said that the people whom I draw testimony have claimed that the kids are in agony. I said they have seen that Michelle’s methods are hardly what today’s parents would call good parenting. Stop reading between the lines for a statement that isn’t there and look at the actual print please.

  283. Sarah Says:

    They are celebrities because they have talent. These people are because of their religion (Which their 17 kids are justified by) I don’t see how all the above mentioned are in any way like the Duggars. These people are famous and are rich because they work, not because the church likes them and hands them free dough, and the government allows their house to be a church so that they don’t have to pay any taxes and such.

    Did the Duggars inherit their fortune though? No. And you know what, Hilton is pretty much on the same level as the Duggars. However, while she did inherit (steal) the money, her family DID earn it and are earning it through their hotel chain! The money did not just poof out of nowhere and land in their laps, nor was it just given to them because they happened to agree and promote a certain ideal.

    Hello, the purpose of welfare is to help people who cannot get by on work alone. Some people are scum and take advantage of the system, but lots of people need it to get back on their feet. It’s not just a bunch of people handing out free money. (Plus, lots of people get turned DOWN for welfare. You have to qualify)

    Um no. I am ticked because they are getting all this BECAUSE they are God-fearing. How many other believers will ever get that kind of generosity? Sorry, but unless they are promoting their faith with their lives like the Duggars, no one will pay attention to them and the church will not be able to use them as a media icon. It’s marketing.

    And once again, you are NOT paying any attention to what I’ve written. Reread my statements and you will see that I am having to repeat myself here.

  284. LadyRavana Says:

    Oh, why have these idiots-Lorain and edilsb have to come and ruin a perfectly good discussion?

    There’s no point in arguing with these idiots. They don’t have two brain cells between them to rub together.

    Why, WHY do stupid people like this have to have Internet access?

  285. Sarah Says:

    LadyRavana: Watch out, they are probably gonna accuse you of being biased and of only wanting to hear the same opinions over and over again.

  286. Sarah Says:

    You kidding me!? They get a shitload of church support from the show they’ve done! And like I said before, the only reason they have the show is because they have so many kids which is because of their friggin belief system. That is what bugs me. How many times will I have to repeat myself?

    Whatever the agents see as talent. Being religious though, last time I checked, was not a talent.

    I am not talking about me, (I never mentioned myself so I have no clue why you are being this into the conversation) I am saying that overall, I think they are a horrible example of selfishness and probably what every fundie family dreams of being.

    I DID answer your question in the last post. READ

    Lady: Called that one…

  287. S. Says:

    ..most definitely,the Doog’s are marketing their family.they can call it a rose by any other name (actually poop in this case),but it is what it is.

    do Brad Pitt and Angielina Jolie bother you? They’re celebrities.

    now I have to give credit to those two.a round of applause to be exact! they adopted several of their children.but yet,the fundies wouldn’t like them.why? they aren’t married,and well….they adopted!!! didn’t they know they were supposed to become wholesome Christians first,then have baby after baby,skipping the adoption part??!! oh my…the horror!

  288. S. Says:

    Oh please, please tell me you right-wingers really *do think Bush was telling the truth about those ‘weapons of mass destruction’ as his reason for invading Iraq.Because anyone with a lick of damned common sense can clearly see IT IS AN OIL WAR!!! And how has lying and getting our troops killed over OIL been beneficial to the rest of us?? Oh yea….I can answer that one…it hasn’t!! The gov continues to be just plain **greedy** and I urge you right -wingers to think that one over every time you’re at the gas pump.now have a nice day :)

  289. Sarah Says:

    XD Alright I will give you that one simply because I never gave you MY definition of fundie because to tell you the truth, I never considered you one by my definition of it. If you consider yourself a fundie, then I take back my remark and apply it to certain fundies. My mistake.

    I dunno Ed…you haven’t met me but you are still bothering to talk to me. I’d say the same thing applies here. You are putting a lot of effort into arguing with us and yet you say WE are wasting our time? LOOK IN THE FRIGGIN MIRROR.

    STOP THE SHIT. I am getting tired of YOU getting to play the Judge, the Jury, and the Executioner while every time WE open our mouths and say something, you get to say “LEFT WINGED LIBERALS! PERSONAL ATTACK! IMMATURE LOSERS WHO BLOG AND HAVE NO LIVES MUAHAHAHAHA!”

    Stop being fucking hypocritical in your comments. I am willing to debate, but I am getting fucking sick of listening to you call us whatever you feel like while blowing the whistle on us at every chance you get.

    And guess what! We are not trying to change the Duggars’ minds! (GASP!) We are voicing our opinion on what we consider a sick family whose kids will never be able to survive outside their religious bubble, who sucks up money and resources and GET to because of their devote faith, and just outright sicken us.

    You know what, what we say DOES matter. Maybe not to an asshole like you who thinks that he is being smart by constantly trying to call fouls on us in every argument, but you know we are people JUST LIKE YOU! Once I turn eighteen I will be able to vote, JUST LIKE YOU and I will have a fucking say, JUST LIKE YOU! Will we be any different outside of our political opinions? No! We will both have a voice and both have the same rights. Pot meet kettle. The only difference is it’s easier to manufacture one over the other. If you think that what we say doesn’t matter…well sorry, but you too are just one person and the world will not always be in this religious mindset.

    Whatever…you will now send a reply back saying I’ve personally attacked you with liberal-nazi nonsense. Whatever. I am tired of trying to be civil with someone who is constantly being hypocritical and thinks he can judge everyone like he is friggin God or something.

    Maybe I’m being stupid for caring so much, but I like I said in the post that Ron closed…I have had my rights and opinions infringed upon enough for me to care about even stupid blogs like this.

  290. S. Says:

    # edilsb Says:
    June 9th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    S…

    “bs excuses for not using birth control and popping out baby after baby”

    What are you saying? I’ve heard them say (literally, not just making it up because it suits my argument) that they believe it’s up to the Lord to determine how many children they have. They have surrendered that control to Him.

    well that’s just plain bs.they shopped around till they found a religion that suited their desire to have baby after baby.that load of nonsense on their website about how they junked all birth control because it caused them to miscarry is just that…a load of nonsense.They could easily have switched to another form of bc,like condoms.

    Why do YOU think they are having the number of kids they’re having?

    they want to have as many kids as possible! that much is obvious.why would michelle stop BF’ijg early so she can get pregnant again if that’s not the case? why do they have a baby approx. every 18 mo? why do they not listen to their dr. when told ,after the 10th pregnancy,that every pregnancy after that would become increasingly riskier? Michelle has horrible scar tissue from the 2 c-sections she had,and had a great deal of difficulty finding a dr to deliver her back in ’05.no one wanted to be assoc. with it if something went wrong.why do they not take sound medical advice?? advice also given is to breastfeed for at least one yr,and give the body at least a 2 yr interval between pregnancies,in order to recover,recoup,and regain nutritional status to ensure a healthy pregnancy the next time around.(this helps prevent things like neural tube defects,like spina bifida and anacephaly(no brain) ).

    More importantly, how are you specifically affected by it anyway? I know the reasons (conjecture, I might add) that people post on this site… and they don’t hold up.

    I don’t recall saying it affected me specifically.I’m as concerned for them as I am for the soldiers in Iraq.it’s just a thing with me,I guess.I give a damn.

    >>They are not in debt.

    maybe not.here’s from wiki:

    According to the FEC, Duggar’s 2002 Senate campaign has closing debts of $101,163 he owes to himself, ranking him number 17 on 2001, 2002 Senate Campaign Debt.[12] These debts were unpaid as of 2004.[13]

    >>>They are not out holding rallies to convert liberals to their way of thinking.

    it’s not something they publicly say.they’re sheltering their kids from the horror that is the normal outside world,(bc they are too good for it to begin with), and producing repub after little repub on their own.

    >>As for your “concern” for the kids… I’m sure the Duggar children would really appreciate all the “concern” coming their way from this site.

    I’m sure they will when they get older and realize the weird way they were raised.right now,it’s all they’ve ever known.

    >The venom directed at them, their parents, the doctored photos, the lying “quotes” attributed to them, and the way anyone who defends them is treated would really give them the warm-and-fuzzies toward you all. If that’s concern, I wouldn’t want it.

    and,I didn’t personally do any of it.I’ve cited my concerns,that’s all.

    >>The bottom line is that if this were a Muslim family, a Hindu family, a Buddist family, or a family of any other race, ethnicity, or belief system BESIDES Christian… you people would say ABOSOLUTELY NOTHING about it.

    now please,by all means,rethink that one.bc i think they would get *more criticism,not less,in that case,esp.if they were black or Mexican.In those cases,some would probably be holding public rallies and petitioning the White House to make them stop!!

    >.It’s not the Duggars you are offended by, specifically, but what they believe in… God.

    I can’t speak for anyone else,but I do believe in God,and I have to say I agree with another poster who said they represent how to do religion wrong.

  291. S. Says:

    ok,I’ll be quiet after this.But if you take sound medical advice,the advice is to wait at least 2 yrs between pregnancies.That means a baby would happen no more often than every 2 yrs and 9 mo,at the most.

    And unless Michelle is the Virgin Mary,they aren’t just handed a baby from God,and they do control the amt of time between pregnancies.

  292. Bunkie Says:

    edilsb – yes, the Duggars are directly affecting us – and so are all others who label themselves churches and thus get tax exemptions.

    The rest of us taxpayers, including you (unless you too are getting off tax free as well), are having to pay taxes to make up for these freeloaders. But perhaps that doesn’t bother you? I doubt that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie get off without paying taxes.

    If the Duggars are not helping to reduce the amount of garbage going into their neighborhood dump then they are helping to increase the cost of handling that garbage and they are contributing towards increasing garbage that is polluting our earth.

    Did you realize that these people had one kid and were going to wait until they could afford another one until Michele got pregnant while on the pill and had a miscarriage. A good Christian doctor pointed out their “mistake” and set them on the road to asking god “to bless them with as many children as He saw fit in His timing”. They felt that their selfish actions had taken the life of their child. That is one major guilt trip. (If you don’t believe me, check out their website under “About”) It appears that it took 14 kids to get the attention of the media and since then they have gained fame and fortune. I wonder who let the media know? I also wonder how the kids will feel once it dawns on them that their parents have used them?

    And, Lorain – it was JON who said “The Duggars and every other xtian should be locked up and re-educated to appreciate tolerance…”, NOT ParrotLover!

  293. Sarah Says:

    Trust me…I know I am wasting my time…but I’d say by the looks of it…we both are just too stubborn to let the other have even an inch of ground to play with. XD

    I’d say that the Duggars are different from the typical Christian family. What I mean is that judging from their lesson plan and daily schedule, these kids don’t know much about how society actually works. Hell, you don’t even have to be religious to not know that. Isolation is actually considered by therapists to be a certain form of abuse to a child. Normal religious practices allow a child to go outside of that realm, but what the Duggars do is fence their kids into their own mentality.

    My point was that these kids have hardly ever been exposed to anything outside of their own family and . An example that I used a while back (Not with you, but someone else) was my extended family which are orthodox Jews. My aunt currently has six children and wants to keep going. I talk to the oldest two all the time (Eldest is three weeks younger than myself) and they are always forced to take care of the little kids when the parents aren’t around (which is a lot), keep to traditional wear and events (I was actually forced to leave a bar mitzfah because I accidentally wore a tube-top dress and exposing my shoulders was not allowed…least for a woman).

    They complain to me all the time and every time they’ve come out West to visit us, they’ve done EVERYTHING against their religion. They pray and ask God to forgive them, but then they come to me and tell me how stifled they also feel and whether it’s a bad thing to feel that way. They are vair confused and it makes me sad to see them because they are smart kids and they believe in God, but they don’t like having to follow such strict rules to believe.

    Although unlike the Duggars, my cousins are allowed more freedom whenever we come to visit and the rules on what they are allowed to do are loosened because my sister and I are not orthodox and the family cannot hold us to their beliefs. Still have to keep kosher and all that, but they can stay up later and prayers are shorter so they can ‘play’ (Basically, I get stuck babysitting with the older kids) with their cousins, etc.

    What I say about the Duggars is taken from those experiences, the testimonies of others who have seen the Duggar method, and my basic grasp of human psychology.

    They are sick because they procreated out of religion, not out of love for children (And that is straight from their mouths)…and seriously, if they wanted that many kids, why not adopt? There are millions of kids out there who are neglected and need a loving home…why not open their doors to them instead of continuing to keep their steady course? The reason is because of their religion.

    I haven’t? Well for one, only Jim Bob has to work because of their show, their house has been declared a church and they don’t need to pay taxes, as S mentioned above, they have gotten out of debt by appealing, they receive donations from ‘concerned viewers’…need I go on?

    The reason they have that many kids is BECAUSE of their faith though! That is the point I’ve been repeating over and over again. The reason they’re famous is because they are so religious that they had 17 (I heard soon to be 18) kids.

    That is the slogan that Ron chose. I simply come here, I don’t make the graphics.

  294. S. Says:

    >>>S…

    I’m not going to even respond to your post until you come up with some facts backing your statements.

    I hear ya,just an excuse bc you can’t compete.

    >.“we consider a sick family whose kids will never be able to survive outside their religious bubble, who sucks up money and resources and GET to because of their devote faith, and just outright sicken us.”

    I’m not the one who said that.

  295. S. Says:

    specifically,which statements edilsb?

  296. S. Says:

    Oh yea,the Fundie mentality….they think,as do a *lot of other repubs..that they’re right and everyone else is wrong,so therefore…it’s ok to walk all over anyone else who doesn’t agree with them.

  297. Parrotlover77 Says:

    Anybody notice how Sarah addresses Edilsb’s points in meticulous detail, but we always get a reply back afterwards like “you didn’t address my point!”

  298. Parrotlover77 Says:

    edilsb: “These comments, specifically. Typical fundie, always asking for proof… ”

    THE IRONY… MY BRAIN… EXPLODING

  299. S. Says:

    yes parrot,I agree.lay it out for them and they pretend not to see it.

  300. S. Says:

    S,

    >>>>You realize, we are getting off the topic of slamming the Duggars… this “thread” has 300+ comments… it’s over a year old… Ron’s gonna close this any day now.

    I doubt it.Ron,please tell us you won’t do that.Us non-fundies are having so much fun :) and hey,I was still talkin’ about em…

  301. J.R. "Bob" Dobbs Says:

    edlsib: Which is why the other topic was closed.Not to prevent discussion, but rather because it became a place where Amy was learning about evolution and a chat forum for Amy and Sarah.

    Off topic, but any particular meaning to your name?

    l33t 5p3@k i5 4 f@95

  302. J.R. "Bob" Dobbs Says:

    Its “Bob” and don’t you dare speak to a prophet of JHVH-1 like that!

    And while Amy gave question after question, at least I could actually enjoy a discussion with her due to her compassion and understanding.

  303. Sarah Says:

    Edilsb: Seriously, if you want yourself to be heard, don’t be so rude. Like I said in my last comment to you. Don’t pull fouls and then blow the whistle at every chance you get on us. Calling us stupid kooky liberals (while limiting all of our speech and basically censoring our opinions) is no way to talk to people in real life…so why would you do it on a blog? Sorry, but it’s getting old and really annoying.

  304. Ron Britton Says:

    S:

    >>>>You realize, we are getting off the topic of slamming the Duggars… this “thread” has 300+ comments… it’s over a year old… Ron’s gonna close this any day now.

    I doubt it.Ron,please tell us you won’t do that.Us non-fundies are having so much fun and hey,I was still talkin’ about em…

    Actually, I wanted to close all of the Duggar threads a long time ago. They don’t accurately reflect what this blog is about, they distract people from the other content, and they attract too many retards.

    I closed that one thread, because the signal was drowned out by the noise. If people are having conversations that are mostly on topic and are actually progressing (instead of going in circles and getting louder in the process), the threads will stay open. If a thread becomes unproductive, it actually can negatively affect the other threads.

    I’ve written over 400 articles. Only 5 were about the Duggars. That’s 1.25%. I don’t know how many comments there are, but over 630 are attached to the Duggar articles. Then there are the hundred or so Duggar comments that have managed to contaminate other articles, because somebody had to mention them there, too. It contaminates the whole site and drags the discussion away from more important topics.

    The Duggars represent many bad things about fundie philosophy. As symbols, they have some value. But in the grand scheme of things, they’re insignificant. You could throw a dart at this blog and almost every article you’d hit would be more important than the Duggars. My last Duggar article was 10 months ago. I’ve moved on. They were just a sideshow in the crazy carnival of fundie America.

  305. J.R. "Bob" Dobbs Says:

    edlisb” J.R. “Bob” Dobbs and don’t you forget it!

    My name still confuses my wife Connie.

  306. Ron Britton Says:

    edilsb:

    You’ve been making a lot of unfounded claims about me. It’s dragging down the conversation in all threads. You can either stick to the topics or be banned.

  307. Ron Britton Says:

    edilsb:

    You keep alleging that I shut down the other thread because I was losing the argument and I disliked criticism or disagreement. I explained why I shut the thread down. Nowhere have I deleted comments because somebody disagrees with me.

    If you think I unfairly delete a comment or close a thread, make your case and be done with it. Don’t misrepresent the event and try to use it as evidence that we refuse to hear what we don’t like.

    Your posts have been abrasive and don’t always contribute to the conversation. If you continue this downward trend toward noise-making without benefiting the conversation, I’ll have to end your comment privileges.

    I do want the comments to be a somewhat-pleasant place for people to hang out. A lot more people read the comments than actually bother to post here. I can’t have one person driving away a hundred others. If they leave because they disagree with your opinions, that’s their fault. If they leave because you’re a dick and make this site unpleasant, that’s your fault.

  308. Tamara Says:

    ***[Moderator's note: I knew immediately after "Tamara" posted this comment that she is actually Edilsb's sock puppet. The first rule of sock puppetry: Change your IP address first! Anyway, "she" wanted to know why I banned Edilsb, so I left his comment here so I could reply to him one more time. He insisted I answer, so I did. See my reply below this. —RB]***

    Where did all of edilsb’s crazy comments go?

  309. Ron Britton Says:

    Tamara:

    Not only is edilsb mentally retarded, but he’s socially retarded as well. Even though I explained to him what behavior is expected around here, he continued to be disruptive. He has been removed from the community.

    I have to assume that he lives in some sort of institution. I can’t imagine somebody that emotionally stunted being able to take care of himself, let alone function in the real world. We extend our sympathies to his family. They must be very strong.

  310. doug Says:

    ***[Moderator's note: I now have conclusive proof that "Doug" here is actually Edilsb's sock puppet. Edilsb got banned from this community for being consistently abusive to other commenters on this site and being unable to maintain a coherent conversation with anybody. He made defamatory claims about me and others on this site and provided no proof or documentation of his claims. After repeated warnings, he was banned from this site and his comments were deleted. This hurt his fragile ego, so he posted the following comment under a different name and from a different computer. I should delete it as well, but resorting to sock puppetry is such pathetic behavior that I have decided to let this comment stand in honor of Mr. Edilsb, our fallen fool. —RB]***

    Hi guys… long time “watcher, first time commenter”…

    I’ve been gone for a few weeks, so imagine my suprise at reading these last couple of weeks of comments. There seems to be a hole here. Lots of people responding to “edilsb” (whatever that is), and yet, no actual comments from “edilsb”. What I found at the bottom of the comments is what’s pushed me over the brink.

    Like you all, I’d read a little of what he/she had to say, and though sometimes sarcastic and a little “revved up”, he pretty much had you pegged. Not counting edilsb, I’ve never seen a bigger group of asskissers in my life.

    “Oh Ron, you’re so brilliant!”

    “Yes, thank you. And you too, Parrotlover77. You really stuck it to those fundies!”

    “I’ve never seen a young person with as great a mind as Sarah… she is an inspiration to her generation.”

    All of you people are sure nice to each other, but when somebody comes in here and pees in your pool… watch out! You are total dicks. Also hypocritical. Also horribly lost within your asinine liberal culture… so much so that it’s apparently impossible to see how badly people like edilsb made you look. I could cite examples, but… oops… all his comments are gone.

    Apparently, ownership of cite has it’s privileges, but come on! Dr. Ron talks a big game… but when the shit hits the fan, feels it’s easier to delete than to debate. I think that says something.

    It’s obvious that Ronald felt threatened by someone being more intelligent than he. And that’s the real reason you won’t find edilsb’s comments here anymore.

    Heck, unless you’re quick, you may not even see my comment.

  311. Ron Britton Says:

    “Doug” (alias Edilsb):

    Does that sock puppet keep your hand warm?

    As I said before, merely disagreeing with me is fine. I’ve never deleted comments just because somebody disagrees with me.

    All that other stuff you wrote is just your paranoid delusions.

  312. LadyRavana Says:

    Looks like some trollish comments…*sigh*

  313. yaz Says:

    i love watching this show but i cant help to think that its totally fake, i dont beleive that none of the fight or scream or act like kids, i personally think that they dont have a proper childhood.

    its not the kids fault that the breed like rabbits so why all the responsibilities on them

    they dont have normal friends and i remember in one episode they spoke about dating and joshua said that he doesnt wan to get his heart broken so they will find a life partner for him… what he was 17 talk about brainwashed… and come on they wont make friends with the way they dress they look like they belong in a cult…

    anyway i do enjoy this show but i cant help but think they put it on for the cameras,

  314. Maybeth Says:

    I didn’t know if you knew this already but the Duggars are going to have a book out in December called 20 and counting: raising one of Americas largest families- How they do it

    I personally don’t want to know how they DO IT yuck!

  315. S. Says:

    well said,yaz,and heartbreak is just a part of life sometimes,they shouldn’t try to protect him from it.that is just making a wuss out of him.(sounds like he’s going to get a wife chosen for him?!)what is this,the dark ages??
    thanks,maybeth,they aren’t quite a family of 20 yet,that is a weird title!

  316. Hi There Says:

    I have to say that having 17 with one on the way is a bit much… Well, okay…. TOO MUCH! I know they want God to dictate their number of kids, but God created a wonderful field called “medicine” and wonderful people to work in it called “doctors.” God can use them to dictate the number of children… With surgery. I mean, c’mon, is she going to have kids till she stops being able… I can just see the future TV… “C’ming up next The Duggar 50… The Parents Tell how they [don't] DO IT ALL!”

  317. Lu Says:

    What is up with the Duggars. I have heard people say “THEY NEVER RAISE THEIR VOICE!” I’ll tell you why… The mom is on something! She has to be to be so seemingly calm and get fucked every night!

    The show makes me sick. Jon and Kate plus 8 is much better- At least they are normal and don’t have dumb ass rules that sound like Mother Goose”NEVER RAISE A HAND TO HIT?” What the hell? Most of the kids are teens

  318. Lindsay Says:

    I had a close friend who was on a very well known reality TV show, and it is interesting how selective editing can make a person to appear a certain way. I raise my eyebrows with the Duggars…I wonder if it is in their contract to have them “appear” in a certain way. They just seem to glossy and happy and perfect. Outwardly they seem to have it together, and reasonably having well adjusted, polite and respectful children is a good thing. But with them there has always been something that was unsettling to me that I could never put my finger that goes beyond the enviromental concerns of having a few dozen children.

    However, I agree with Jon and Kate Plus 8…I get the feeling more with them that what you see is what you get.

  319. S. Says:

    they’re unsettling,I agree.From Michelle’s outdated hair-do to those weird outfits the girls have to wear,so they (all) of them can match,it’s very limiting to their freedom,the natural freedom a child should have.(I don’t mean running amok,just being a normal kid).They all,esp. the girls..look like they want to say something,but they know they’d better shut up.

    I saw a segment where Michelle was asked if she thought it was too much work on the older kids to help out w the younger ones…she said “I don’t think so,they’re mentoring the younger ones’,and so on,blah blah blah.What bothered me about that is the KIDS themselves weren’t asked that question.They have no say in how many babies mom n dad pop out,and how much help they’re expected to give.

    I would LOVE to see the kids be allowed to honestly answer (after being ASKED in the first place! that would be the kind and considerate thing to do)if they’d be willing to help out with another bro or sis BEFORE Mom n dad pop out their “We’re pregnant (again!)” line that always comes up every yr and a 1/2 or so.

  320. Meg Says:

    So after reading a few (ok quite a few) of the posts I just wanted to voice my opinion. I have to get this out…

    I agree with a lot of you…this family concerns me (over population! using resources!). How is it possible for TWO parents to give SEVENTEEN (soon to be EIGHTEEN) children equal attention? I was amazed at the fact that they had a sign up sheet for “one on one time with mommy”. I grew up in a small family (just one older brother) and we both thrived because of the attention we received. Although I don’t know the family personally I can only imagine how hard it would be to give them the attention they both need and deserve.

    Also, I’m not sure if I agree with the idea of a sibling “raising” another sibling. I believe that’s the parent’s job and the children should be allowed to enjoy their childhood while they have it! To me I think this gives the wrong message to the general public…that the parents have so many children that they have to enlist their older ones to help them out. I mean I think children should help but certainly not raise another sibling. I think it’s too much to ask of a child.

    Ok and LASTLY…does anyone know if they plan on sending their kids to college? I’m curious to know. That would be EXPENSIVE to pay tuition for all of them! Also, does anyone agree with me that announcing to the kids on the Today show about the 18th child is a little tactless? I would want to inform my kids in private before announcing it to the public. I don’t know…to me it just seems more considerate that way.

    Anyway…hope I didn’t offend anyone. But I thought I would at least put my opinion out there

  321. Barbara Says:

    The “college” of choice for the Duggar children is an unaccredited fundie online school. Not sure of the cost, but they’ve probably worked that out by giving the “college” publicity.

    The parents are media whores. Several TV specials, now a book, their website…anything to get free merchandise or money by pimping their brood.

    Meg, your post was well written and even if I did not agree with all of what you had to say, it would still be inoffensive , at least to me!

  322. Meg Says:

    Thank you Barbara :) And also thanks for the info on the college issue. interesting stuff…

  323. sacc Says:

    I just wanted to voice out the disgust i felt while reading about this family, and that not only do they help overcrowd the world but have such ridiculous beliefs. great blog by the way, and im sorry for the grammar, ‘m not a native speaker.

  324. Lindsay Says:

    The Duggar thread continues on…jeez they are like a carnival side show the whole lot of them.

    I just have a strange fascination with this bunch. Very unsettling, creeping fascination…sort of like the feeling I get when reading Stephen King’s “The Langoliers”…I’m not for sure what is going on and things don’t outwardly seem completely bad but something just isn’t right.

    The college info is interesting. Is it that one down in Louisiana? What sort of career options will the daughters have? One episode they asked the girls what they wanted to do with their lives and all of them said “be a mommy.” Really, each and every one of them Jim Bob and Michelle?

  325. Barbara Says:

    I know somewhere I read a blurb on each little Duggar and while the boys said they wanted to do things like “Lawyer” and “Construction”, the girls career choices were things like “Midwife”. Perhaps they will deliver each others’ babies.

    Looks like they’ve added some links to various “institutes” of “higher learning” on their website…Bob Jones U, and something called Telos University and the Oak Brook College of Law….see the link at
    http://www.duggarfamily.com/links3.html

  326. spinetingler Says:

    Wow, I’ve been visiting this site for a few months now and I had somehow never stumbled into a Duggar post or comment thread!

    I know a similar family – in fact, I used to go to the neighborhood church that the father started. They have eight kids, and I have no doubt that number nine will be on the way shortly. Of course, all are homeschooled. I saw the poor mom just the other day, driving one of those big-ass 15 passenger vans out of the Sonic drive-in. She looks like she’s aged 20 years in the 8 years I’ve known them. I worry about her health.

    Much like the D’s, the oldest kids raise the younger – I’ve often wondered what people think when they see the 16-year-old girl out with an infant on one hip and a toddler on the other.

    On the plus side, they are some of the nicest and politest kids I’ve ever met.